Flak is a beastmaster that punishes you for playing him as a beastmaster. And im still baffled by that. I dont where why trainer ever was put into the game, what a joke.
I can only think of the Trainer class mod for gear related to Dominance and I think that class mod would be improved enormously by these changes. Imagine if the card simply read:
“Hunter kill skill. Whenever Fl4k’s pet kills an enemy, Dominance is applied for 10 seconds.”
As for skills, I wouldn’t change them at all. We’ve got some nice choices which would still work nicely.
So the class mod would allow the stats to stack twice but not indefinitely. The mod becomes one which buffs our pet in a major way. It would mean cutting a mechanic from FL4K’s set up (turning enemies to our side), but we could still do it through Amara’s Glamour augment and the Traitorweed in DLC3.
Capstones should feel satisfying and enjoyable, your reward for going all the way down a tree. Unfortunately Dominance in its current form isn’t in that place but I think if Gearbox made this change then Fl4k’s pets and the Master tree would have taken a step in a direction players would truly appreciate. What do you think?
Dominance in the way it works at the moment cannot be applied upon kill without just copy-pasting the Trainer class mods effect (so effectively dominating the enemy that would have been killed and killing it at the end of the Domination). Or you give Dominance an area of effect and let it affect multiple enemies at once, but in that case they need to be damageable or else we just stall out our own mobbing. It’s not an easy skill to make good without breaking aspects of the game.
But also, I want to make the concept as efficiently to implement as possible for the slim chance that Devs take notice and want to use our ideas. Practicability is king. That’s why I would not change Dominance, but rather add stat bonuses, make those solid on their own and then improve them while an enemy is dominated. Basically, instead of abandoning the original idea (which creative people hate to do anyway), I would just add to the idea to make the skill worth taking and then incentivise the usage of the original concept by further increasing the added bonuses. Basic operant conditioning so to speak.
Imagine if FL4K had a gamaburst com that gave him Gaige’s upshot robot skill, but with pet damage instead of melee damage.
I guess it technically already exists in one of the augments, but it has a cap. Which seems kinda lame to me.
I don’t think it should even be that far in the tree, your pet being able to taunt should be a fairly basic staple of the beastmaster class itself and then skills in that tree would reduce the cooldown of the taunt and increase the chances of the pet surviving taunting in the first place.
For feedback I’m just going to link
Probably the largest of the FL4K feedback thread
I don’t think the basics of what we’ve been asking for has changed much since release.
There have been so many great ideas thrown around. Where do you start??
Your start by taking a solid look and coming up with a plan to help one of the most under represented VHs get some fixes. Throughout the games life so far he has received the least help of any of the Vault Hunters. Was nerfed from the get go, and ignored since…
If anyone is interested, here is my idea of a rework for Dominance that preserves the original idea of the skill, but makes it an all-around good skill for pet builds. I increased the duration of the original skill to make using it more convenient with the new bonuses. The damage bonuses should be applied separately in the damage formula as the last bonus in the equation. That way the skill would have a massive impact on the pets performance no matter the equipment, which would future-proof the idea. Also, all 3 bonuses are meant to be additive to each other. Last but not least, we need a skill indicator for when an enemy is currently dominated.
And here it is…
Melee Override Skill. FL4K establishes dominance over an enemy, turning it into an ally for a short time. If the enemy is a Beast, the duration is doubled.
While under the effects of Dominance, the target constantly loses health until it dies or the effect ends. Only one enemy can be dominated at a time. An enemy can only be dominated once.
In addition to that this skill grants bonus damage for Fl4ks pet. Additional bonuses to pet damage while Gamma Burst is active and/or while an enemy is affected by Dominance.
Dominance Duration: 20 seconds
Target loses 2% of Max Health/sec
Pet damage: +50%
Gamma Burst damage bonus: +50%
Dominance damage bonus: +100%
This represents perfectly how I felt with Fl4k since the game released, it’s so sad.
The pet feels like a tool, instead of a companion like it should be.
Please, buff the pets, GB.
Also, Fl4k has a lot of voice lines when your pet kills someone or something, so I guess they wanted pets to be able to kill at some point in development
If I could summarize the things we’d like into some bullet points (because TBF, there has to be 30-40 pages of feedback threads for FL4K):
1) Sort out the pet bugs.
If He Bites stacks Frenzy, there is no reason why Atomic Aroma shouldn’t. There is no reason Gamma should be so inconsistent with Go for the Eyes. There isn’t any reason why pet melee shouldn’t get cryo bonuses.
2) QOL and AI fixes
Pets should respond to attack commands faster. Attack commands should register faster. Gunslinger needs some form of splash resistance (it’s even worse than IB since Gunslinger can move into position where he will down himself and you can’t control it) and Countess needs to have her burrowing attack looked at. She uses it to change elevations which frequently wastes the cool down and if you go into FFYL while she’s using the skill she will not resurface.
3) Reward teamplay with pets
The pet gets a bunch of bonuses that we need to keep up, but there isn’t any way we can actively use the pet to gain power. I’d like to see more skills or anointments incorporate the attack command. For example, Ambush Predator could increase crit damage after an attack command and Galactic Shadow could increase the pet’s aggro after an attack command. Our anointments could give us increased damage against enemies damaged by an attack command (so Rakkslag for pets) or some kind of killing blow where pets deal higher damage against low health targets.
4) Rework or add effects to certain skills to make them more rewarding
Go for the Eyes would be a great skill if it gave the pet a % chance to crit. Dominance should just have some kind of pet bonus attached to it. Now that the pet will attack Dominated targets (hence why the Trainer COM is so bad), the skill should be rethought in general. Personally, what I’d like to see is some kind of bonus after the Dominated target dies, so that the Trainer COM has some use.
I just want more interactions between gear/annointments and pets.
If melee bonuses on gear/annointments boosted pet melee this would open up a slough of new pet options. Hopefully this could be multiplicative with the clunky pet skill damage formula.
Rakk Slag annoint should boost pet damage as well. Again this would in theory be another multiplicative damage gain to melee pets with access to Go For The Eyes.
I want to have a degree of control over pet functions. I’m afraid that simply increasing base pet damage to viable M10 numbers could take away from the fulfillment of efficient Attack Commands and FL4K/Pet synergy. Simply watching Beefcake mow down enemies doesn’t sound fun, but telling him “that one was talking ■■■■” and watching the magic happen does.
If we had more damage interactions outside of splash/AoE well played/specced/geared pet builds could be a legitimate item with other pets than Countess and Gunslinger.
This is the big one. I don’t know if you’ve seen Thiccfila’s video using SNTL to clear MTD
Or seen the clone damage formula thread Clone/Double Barrel Damage Guide + Formula!
But both of these show that a sensible damage formula encourages playing with the itemization system of the game to maximize pet damage. Of course I won’t give a ■■■■ about my gear if none of it effects my pets, or vice-versa. If the intention is for the pets not to overshadow gear, then the answer is to make pets scale with it, not make them so weak you need to depend on gear only.
My only argument in support of making pet damage gear dependent is to avoid pets steamrolling lower/no Mayhem levels.
Recoding the damage formula would be the most felt IMO
I definitely understand that, although I think that ship has sailed with mayhem scaling anyway.
Yeah, +10000% enemy HP is a helluva thing to try to balance a game around.
I think the thing that makes it doubly challenging is that mayhem scaling makes abilities far more effective as you go up the ladder. A pet build on Mayhem 0 is far weaker than one on Mayhem 10, the difference is astronomical. The pets are the weakest summon, but they have the largest mayhem multiplier.
I think as they are right now it still wouldn’t be a problem since even doubling their damage wouldn’t put them in the same league as Bear and Clone, but it does complicate things for the myriad of other changes we request (at least depending on how seriously you take the “balance” trying to be maintained here. I’ve already given my thoughts on how “balancing” isn’t needed for the pets).
I recede my prior argument, done some quick testing at M0.
If splash damage didn’t apply to pets, a M0 pet build would be disgraceful.
Edit: Rakk Attack is LETHAL at M0 though lmfao
There definitely needs to be something to help pets scale with Fl4k. As gear continues to creep upward, pets will likely get left behind again inevitably.