I'm still not seeing Iron Bear as "useless" in Mayhem

Even Mayhem 3.

I agree he needs a buff , but I dont understand why the general consensus seems to be that he is “useless” in mayhem mode ?

Like almost all Moze players at end game, I run the standard Deathless / grenade spam build with heavy investment into demo woman and SOR trees.

Still, even with all that and spamming radioactive HEX Mervs all over the place , once I start seeing myself getting surrounded i pop into IB and still do very respectable DPS using JUST DUAL ROCKET PODS NO AUGMENTS

The homing rockets nerf DPS. And all other IB weapons and augments dont seem to do as much DPS either .

Keep in mind in Mayhem you often get the "action skill 45% damage " bonus, and as far as I know there is no possible action skill nerf in mayhem modes (at least none I ever got).

Of removing said bonus, just today while farming the red jabber for legendary grenades , I killed off 2 super badass Jabbers with one IB cycle, and still had a bit of his armor left .

What gives ? Where are you guys seeing that IB is “useless”? Sure I agree if all you do as moze is spam grenades non stop 100% of the time then sure, its doubtful ANY other build or attack in the game can keep up with that… but for normal game play in mayhem 3 that revolves around seeing a mob, throwing 2-3 grenades , use guns, repeat etc, IB still has fantastic use and I never pop him and think to myself man is he useless .

Not trying to start a fight, just genuinely curious why such a massive discrepancy between my experience and everyone else’s?


Do all that or you can shoot Flakker like once… maybe twice. Or Scourge once.

Just sayin’

With the right min/max, in pales in comparison with my experiences. I’m sure there are some options. I’m open to builds that buff him, but I’m still thinking some builds just really outclass ib to the point of making him really useless by comparison.

However. If u want to use him as a sortof manual eject button, his enter and exit animartiom are iframes so you can enter, press jump + crouch + sprint back and forth while you run away and do a hilarious bunny hop out of danger before ejecting. Hell you might even get to deploy autobear before it’s destroyed :stuck_out_tongue:

(Seriously, the bunny hop animation is faster than the walk animation, essentially faster than a Sprint. It’s a wonderful fight ejection method and super funny to watch as anither player)

You can still use it for standard trash mobs, but doing a TVHM m3 Slaughter Shaft, against a group of badasses and anointed, or most boss fights you get melted in 2 seconds.

The damage is ok in some situations, but it’s durability is awful.

I agree that in situations where you are in a slaughter shaft surrounded by 3 annointed badasses and other enemies he I’ll get overwhelmed quickly, but in most other normal game play scenarios he does pretty good at least with my set up, and my only points invested is 8 total points in stainless steel bear and the one that returns fuel.

Maybe those 8 points is what makes IB seem good to me ? I dont know , but like I said I killed two super badass jabbers on mayhem 3 just this morning, not shabby at all

I dont use the flakker because IMO it’s too OP and very boring. As far as I know there is nothing post Fl4k nerf that can match the Flakker in pure DPS ?

Yeah common enemies and wildlife aren’t really an issue (I know you’re saying you killed BA’s but they’re still common), but the other situations, which are the ones where you really want the power of an action skill IMO, you just feel helpless.

And it doesn’t help that you’re in a literal mech tank and they cut through you like wet tissue paper.

I originally was spec’d up a bunch for Iron Bear and wore the mod for decreased fuel consumption, and it just didn’t feel worth it to me.

Yeah fuel is hardly the issue anymore, most of the time I run out of armor way before I do fuel

Right, it needs like 50% damage reduction or something instead.

Totally, probably even more than that in Mayhem mode.

Like I said in my other thread, I think a big step would be to add multipliers to damage and armor for IB in Mayhme modes , so in Mayhem 1 his damage and armor is increased 2x, in mayhem 2, 3x , in mayhem 3 increased 4x (something like that)

I’d also like some more of mozes skills to also apply to IB,


It definitely needs something lol. Both it and her skill trees need a pretty big overhaul if it’s gonna be viable, especially (and I’m assuming here) if there ends up being a UVHM since it’ll only get worse.

Yeah. Retribution is the anti-ib tree since most of IB survivability is based on Moze’s max health. Also, non of the attributes like “firing longer increases damage” don’t apply to IB either. He simply lacks the synergy that all the other classes have (whether those synergies work as intended is a different issue of course)

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My biggest gripe is the fact im in a huge mech and i still find myself having to run away in some fights

Depending on build

A. Run out of fuel in seconds
B. i get melted in seconds

I sorta found a happy medium with one build but not doing enough damage to have it be worth it

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Maybe your own build isnt doing enough dmg ? or you are not using the best guns ? a fully buffed IB cycle deals roughly the same dmg as half a flakkers clip, and im talking about investing in every single perk for iron bear, and comparing it to equipping 1 single gun. So yeah, you can also finish the game without using guns if you want, (a dude made a video about that, its epic) but that doesnt mean its 100 times harder than just using something better, and almost every weapon is better than iron bear right now.

So basically every gun and action skill should 1-shot the entire screen otherwise it’s useless?

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Almost every top tier perfectly anointed weapons is better than Iron Bear.

I’ll list the same handful of weapons that EVERYONE uses disregarding the other few 1000 guns.

-Kings/Queens Call
-Rowans Call
-Lucians Calls

Yes these specific weapons especially when perfectly anointed to match your build are better than Iron Bear. They’re also better than everything else in the game.

Why bother using anything that isn’t grossly overpowered? Oh, idk… fun? Maybe variety?

Just because something isn’t Overpowred doesnt mean it’s useless.

Iron Bear using the explosive minigun or rockets does respectable enough damage to burst down enemies regardless of their health bar colors.

I think thats taking it too far… Ppl also want nerfs to broken builds , some dont, but most do. The fact that there is a build to deal almost infinite dmg, or survive forever while afk doesnt mean its the new standard, both extremes are bad for the game.

The problem with iron bear is that its so bad that using it is purposely gimpling your character, you can do that, no problem, i do roleplaying builds and i do that all the time, but that doesnt mean it fine and we should leave it like that, mostly because its the core of the character, shes a mech soldier, not a foot soldier, and without using your action skill the gameplay becomes dull pretty fast.

gonna share what i said in another thread. this is my take on it, link

Purple/bad legendary guns do more damage than IB and IB will lose armor before the clip is done.

Then your picking the wrong weapons or augments and not speccing st least some points in stainless steel bear , the shield, and the one that returns fuel on kill.

Dont know what else to tell you if even bad legendaries do more damage that IB for you. That statement is objectively wrong .