In Defense of Ava

Don’t be a Steve. Always use Spoiler tags.

I see a good amount of people blaming her for Maya’s death, but I’m just gonna say it, I think that’s being ridiculous. The Calypso Twins were gonna show up at the Vault anyway, regardless of Ava’s presence, and they were going to try to kill Maya regardless. The only thing that might have been different was that Troy wouldn’t have discovered his own unique powers. That’s really it. They would have attacked her regardless, and since it’s two against one and we see what they did to Lilith, Maya wouldn’t have fared much better.

However, overall Maya’s death was handled rather poorly and felt rushed. Roland’s death had real weight to it, and we even went around Sanctuary informing everyone of the terrible news. With Maya, it feels like no one really cared that much, hell Lilith was even making jokes. It was very jarring. Everyone just packed up and moved onto the next thing. By far, the worst writing of BL3 is regarding Maya’s death.

So blame lackluster writing if you want to, but don’t blame Ava. She’s just a kid.


It needs to be redone, and this was typical. Yes, Eva is responsible. This is how it was written. To be fair, Lilith was just walked up to when she lost her powers.

Much of it should be regiggered.

1 Like

I honestly don’t understand much of what you just said.

Even if Ava’s actions indirectly led to Maya’s demise, that still doesn’t make Maya’s death her fault. It’s Troy’s fault, obviously. You can’t blame Ava for the actions of two lunatics.

Maya dying is not Ava’s fault.


Sure you can. Just like you can blame Ned Starks death on Sansa, Uncle Ben’s death on Peter Parker, and Leon’s death on Mathilda (the professional)


Peter Parker knowingly let go a criminal, so that’s a bit different.

The other examples you provide are just as ridiculous.


Yeah, it’s silly to blame Ava. Maya is no stronger than Lilith, probably weaker even since she admits that she can’t power herself up with Eridium the same way Lilith can, she would not have won that 2v1 fight even without the hostage situation with Ava, her powers were getting drained regardless. And since the Calypsos likely would have learned from their mistake of leaving Lilith for their followers to finish off, they probably would have drained Maya’s life fully instead of just draining her powers and leaving her for dead.

I feel like the death was necessary, it was an important character development moment for Ava, to Ava at that point in the game the whole vault hunting thing was a game and she thought she was invincible, a typical stupid kid, seeing Maya die though taught her that vault hunting isn’t just some game. It was also important for setting up future playable sirens. Remember that there can only be 6 Sirens in existence at any one time. Gearbox likes to have a playable siren in every numbered game, therefore they have to kill off sirens at some point to make room for more. At the end of Borderlands 3 there are 3 living known sirens, Ava (who will probably be the playable siren in Borderlands 4, though she might be an NPC instead), Amara (who we will have already played as, making her an NPC in future games if she shows up at all), and Tannis. So, assuming Ava is playable in 4, we have playable Sirens now for the next 4 numbered games, assuming Gearbox plans to keep the series going that long, which they probably will since it’s their most successful franchise by a country mile.

I also didn’t feel like the writing was rushed here personally. You can talk to many of the characters about Maya’s death to get dialogue about her death, it’s just optional to talk to them. Tannis talks about the possibility of an afterlife for instance if you speak to her afterwards.

My problem with that scene is that you the vault hunter walk back into the room before it plays, yet are nowhere in the cutscene. I’m supposed to believe that my Moze just stood somewhere off camera and watched that fight instead of hopping in my Iron Bear and firing some railguns at them? I would have much preferred if we got a boss fight against them that was a scripted loss before the cutscene ever plays. Would have been a good way to show just how strong they are and how weak you are at that point in the game by comparison.


They set up Lilith’s revival as possible DLC? Wasn’t aware of that.

In the scene, it plays out as if the Vault Hunter isn’t even in the room, like we’re not present. I find that odd, but there’s a similar situation in Borderlands 2, after Jack kills Roland. We couldn’t have saved Roland, but we just sit there and watch while Jack takes Lilith hostage and lets him siren beam us. It’s just as dumb, if not more.

People are treating Borderlands 2 writing like god tier and saying 3 sucks in comparison, and while I do think 2’s was better, I fail to see this gigantic disparity between the two, other than Handsome Jack.


I heard somebody say that. Haven’t finished the game yet so I can’t be sure myself.

I like to see a revival of Maya without her powers from a vault or accidentally from Tannis experimenting her own powers


im still wondering where was we the vault hunters at that time we left the vault when the twins came did we just watched all of this how maya dies or what

1 Like

Sansa told the Lannisters of her father’s plans betraying her whole family.

Mathilda went off on her own and got caught forcing Leon to rescue her and making him known.

They are very much responsible.

I disagree that Maya’s death was the worst writing. The worst writing is everything about the great vault and the final boss. That is what was rushed more than anything and it feels like it went off the rails.

1 Like

Many of you are missing the main point.
Without Ava being there when she was adamantly told not to be, Maya would not have been in that room full stop. She stayed behind with Ava to speak to her, otherwise she would have been with the vault hunter… Ergo, 2v2. and lets face it, at that point Troy is a bitch, so it’s really 2 vs Tyreen which I think we’d have comfortably won.
Ava causes Maya’s death. There is no getting around it. She then has the gall to blame it on Lilith, who wanted to go herself even without her powers. I liked Ava a lot up until this point and found her very funny, but she’s got the IQ of a rat (a dumb rat at that). Good job by the borderlands team for creating 3 dimensional characters and not just good vs bad.


While I do admit you have a point I hadn’t considered before, I’d like to remind you that Ava is a child, so her irrational behavior is more forgivable imo. Obviously it wasn’t Lilith’s fault.


No, this scene in BL2 was decent, rewatch it. Handsome Jack ambushes killing Roland and actually does get attacked by Lilith as soon as she realizes what just happened. He puts a choker on her, says few threatening lines and takes her as a hostage after which we get teleported away. It all happens fast in a matter of 30 seconds. Do you think vault hunters should have shot him in these few seconds after he put the choker? This would be very boring writing, villains should have a short talk with the heroes on their confrontation.

On the other hand in BL3 Calypsos talk for 2 minutes with vault hunters just standing there. Not good.

At least Ava doesn’t say out of nowhere that she has asthma or something else for “representation”.


No it’s not, at least in my opinion. Ava might be a child but that excuse doesn’t forgive horrible writing. She never really accepted responsiblility or even acknowledged that Maya’s death wasn’t entirely Lilith’ s fault. She never even felt any guilt about it. In that same vein she’s just an irrational kid who went through no growth and got handed Siren powers, Sanctuary 3, The entire Crimson raiders, as if there wasn’t any more qualified people in the game. If only Brick and Mordecai were in the game, or maybe even Tannis who was there since Borderlands 1, added to the fact that she had no training with actual siren powers but used them to save the day a few times as a cheap cop out.

I don’t even care too much about Mayas death because there’s no reason to care about Ava. Ava didn’t have enough screen time with Maya to make me feel like there was a real bond between them.

There’s child characters who’ve been written that Ava, for example Tiny Tina, even Pickle was more useful than Ava without the whole angsty teen thing. It would’ve been better if Ava wasn’t in the foreground of the game.


Hah, maybe it has something to do with the Destroyer, last time we fought a variant of that boss in BL1 it was pretty lackluster too.

I’m mostly kidding, Tyreen-Destroyer was still much better than BL1 Destroyer.

1 Like

I haven’t gotten to that part in the story yet, so I haven’t seen for myself. But so far, gotta say I’m liking Ava. She’s funny, and what a lot of people seem to forget is that she’s just a kid.


Kid, that 30 seconds after You meet starts to SHOOT at Maliwan troops… Yeah…

1 Like

Still just a kid. She’s bound to be impulsive and not make the best choices.