In regards to the "fuel system", "research", "formations, etc

This is quite a simple topic that won’t take up much of your time to read.
My suggestion & recommendation is this:

Homeworld 2 races shouldn’t use the fuel system.
Homeworld 1 races should use the fuel system.

Now, before you reply in regards to balancing issues, especially that
HW2 races would have the advantage - Hear me out!

You don’t have to mirror races. This is a massive misconception
which always crops up when either developing or discussing
the development of a Real-Time-Strategy game; in whatever format
you choose, whether that be a MOBA, or 3D-Space-Combat game.

Asymmetrical races are a beautiful thing, the game “StarCraft II”
demonstrates this well, and while there are no clear counters because
of this and there are always people who complain about the new meta,
the game is still balanced and the majority of the community love it.
(And, honestly, you’re in the wrong industry if you’re trying to cater to all.)

However, this trail of thought will make balancing harder, of course - But
isn’t it worth it? To preserve the original playstyles of the races and still
along cross-timeline combat? The balance will come, maybe not at first,
but it will. And people just have to trust the developers to do that.

Lore-wise, sure, let’s say that HW1 races use the fuel system because it’s
older technology, right? Great! But how can we balance that? Given that the
weapons of the older era should also be weaker, right? Absolutely!
My suggestion to resolve this issue is to lower the cost of the HW1 races.
Make them swarm races, definitely allow the to research multiple items at
a time, and absolutely allow them to construct multiple ships at a time!
(I won’t touch on these other balance issues. Once you’ve read this thread
I’m sure you can gather what I’m getting at and won’t need that explanation.)

To summarize, my entire point is that you need to think outside-of-the-box in
a very un-original way and borrow ideas from each games for their perspective
races. If I were the developers, I’d balance everything to the HW2 races, and then
experiment with how to do the races in HW1. That is all. I hope you’ve enjoyed it!

2 Likes

Yep enjoyed it and i agree with almost all except fuel, in my opinion all races should use fuel mechanic for fighters… It just adds more strategy to combat mechanic, for example (in big maps) if you are overwhelmed by enemy fighters, you can try to eliminate enemy support frigates and try to hold out till enemy fighters run out fuel :smile:

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As an avid SC2 fan, I do agree that asymetric races are nice. However, fundamental mechanic differences, such as fuel, could be especially difficult to balance as they apply to all fighters. It could work, but I’m not sure if it would add to the game or restrict its potential. I’d need to actually play it or see it in action before I agreed or disagreed with it.

I don’t really agree with the weaker weapons --> swarm idea. The original HW races in the original HW game had a certain feel of power, and this would be tinkering with how that aspect functions.

Taking from your SC2 example, Terran technology is supposedly vastly surpassed lore-wise by Protoss technology, yet many Terran units can still stand toe-to-toe with Protoss units using supposedly conventional weaponry against shielding and armor that should be more difficult to pierce according to lore. Another aspect of asymetrical balance for multiplayer is that you must sacrifice sticking strictly to the lore in order to achieve balance.

Personally, I think the HW1 races are different enough from the HW2 races that they could still be considered as asymetric.

Hiigaran and vaygr are very different already, hw1 races are different compared with hw2, I hope they keep the durable feel that you have with hw1 ships, and keep it non cruiser dependant

Lower the cost and make it a swarm race is actually a really really bad suggestion, hw1 goes the opposite way, ships are strong and durable, doing such a thing will kill the game vibe, and make hw1 players really frustrated and angry

3 Likes

So much of this is hard to imagine. I’m really surprised they are going to allow for game modes with all 4 races together. It actually has me really scared for the HW1 side of things.

HW2 had some interesting innovations, but I don’t think their was anyone who was happy about the strike craft changes. If that is lost in order to play with better graphics, your going to see most hard core HW1 players just stick to classic.

So some other things to think about.

How will tech sharing work if their are classic players? What happens if I transfer a HW1 carrier to a HW2 player?

What if a HW2 players transfer a HW1 player strike craft, how will they integrate into HW1 formations?

RU for jumps was different IIRC.

What in the world in HW2 would stand a chance against a quad vet wolf pack?

These are just kinda off the cuff. I’m glad they are calling the MP beta. We are going to find a massive amount to exploitable unintendeds and bugs earliy on I bet.

But at the same time I’m so excited it’s hard to describe. In a way, I hope everything we did has to be rethought. It was so fun to develope the strategies and tactics the first time around. The kid in me that wants to just show up and own everyone with 15 years of knowlege is being overridden by the adult in me that knows it would be more fun to it all again from the beginning.

We need to party like its 1999 :slight_smile:

1 Like

They can start right now by dumping sphere formation. While it is fun. It is just way to exploitable and frankly its just not very realistic, nor is it ascetically pleasing. Secondly, Dump all fuel systems. While fuel adds tactical depth and realism, Running out of fuel and having to scuttle a few grand of much needed strike craft is not fun. Next dump the kamikaze feature. I like the ability to kamikaze my ships but this feature often proves to be exploitable. The HW 1 factions will need to be reworked so that they build modules like the HW 2 factions. The destruction of mods on large ships was a nice upgrade to the game. It added tactical depth and in my opinion building and flying my unarmed brain ship was just silly. We also will need to decide what to do as community about strike craft. There is the one at a time route and there is the building in wings route. While I have a opinion on this, it is not set in stone. I am leaning more to the side of building them in wings. But if I can build 5 anti frigate fighters in the time it takes to build 1 anti strike craft frigate and the damage and cost ratios are equal. This would be math that I could live with. That being said, While I am not sure, I think that implementing a global single strike craft build might lead to a rework of the Vayger race. I am sure there are many ideas for dealing with strike craft balance that I have not even thought of yet.

If you have ideas that are very alien to my own I encourage all of you to share them. Though the sharing of ideas we should be able to mix and match the best parts. This will increase our chance of getting a truly choice end product. It seems to me from what I have been reading and from my own personal experiences with the game that our multiplayer game will be very unpolished. This is really a good thing. No small team could ever work out all the bugs and balance such a thing. There will be many people that will be discouraged with the beginning product. Do not let this throw you off. Do not leave thinking that you will come back when the game has been fixed. Instead continue to play provide lots of feed back to the community and the developers. The community’s involvement in the balancing, restructuring, and general ousting out of bugs will be the key to the multiplayer part of the games success.

Alas, this all pre-release conjecture.

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Right On Ody, and welcome back!

This should be seen by all of us early-adopting oldtimers as the opportunity that Relic and Barfing Dog never gave us.

We have a chance to include our input into how the MP game is made.

This will be a process, not a patch and done thing. Be ready for testing and reporting and testing again.

I will reserve opinions on fuel/build orders/etc. until I see how the initial presentation of what GB thinks is correct.

Things will be decided by the people that show up, and make contributions.

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Blue there is so much wisdom in your simple little post. It makes my over complicated wall of words look silly.