Infinite grenades are only a problem because of Vampyr

Gearbox seems adamant that grenade spamming is unintentional and shouldn’t be possible, but honestly, grenades don’t do enough damage for spamming them to be worth it to begin with. Pre-nerf Hex, sure, but after the nerf even the Hex’s damage pales in comparison to that of a decent weapon. And MoD isn’t a problem either thanks to the internal CD; 3 rounds per second is only meaningful on low fire rate weapons like heavies, and since the Flakker adjustments none of those weapons do enough damage for effectively infinite ammo to be problematic. BL3, by and large, doesn’t balance weapon effectiveness around ammo efficiency, even if it pretends to.

So let’s be real, infinite grenades aren’t a balance problem in and of themselves, they only become a balance problem because the synergy between beam grenades and Vampyr allows infinitely spammed beam grenades to make you effectively invulnerable.

If that’s the root problem, surely the solution isn’t to prevent beam grenades from working with MoD and Vampyr, but rather to change the way Vampyr interacts with beam grenades to bring them in line with non-beam grenades. An internal CD, a limit to how many times a single grenade can proc Vampyr, scaling the heal amount based on the tick rate, etc. That would allow beam grenades to not only remain viable, but to remain a niche pick for ammo-limited builds, while not outclassing other types of grenades because of their healing potential. This would ideally be accompanied by some kind of buff to Vampyr that makes it worth using with non-beam grenades, because right now it’s usually not.

Or they could just add a second heal in a different tree.


Oh they should do that too, preferably in Bottomless Mags. I’m just trying to say infinite grenades aren’t really the problem, Vampyr is.

The electric Mirv tacular hex seems to produce ok…not like it did before but it works…plus it’s a tool to strip shields so you don’t have to carry a weapon :man_shrugging:t3:

The problem with “infinite nades” was/is that spamming a super op splitting + homing + screen clusterfk hex ruins the game for everyone else in online multiplayer.

Vampyr isnt needed anyway considering all the other options for moze to be basically invincible because of her op shield tree.

I pretty much use my Hex as a shield stripper so I can focus on my splash/incendiary damage. One grenade will put me back above health gate at least.

I also like using the Epicenter, especially with bonus elemental damage stacked on top of my incendiary damage bonuses.

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The Mirv-taculer doesn’t do that like the regular Mirv or reaccuring…it shoots one grenade at one target then splits into six on that target…the mirv shot three and the reaccurring bounced everywhere

With infinite nades (for infinite MoD) Moze trivialized virtually all mobbing content, which posed a bit of an issue for designing future challenges/encounters. Hex/Hive could stare at the floor and still decimate an area just for existing in that general proximity. Storm Front and Quasar could achieve similar things, though they procced MoD a bit slower.

Bloodletter is a strange COM, post-redesign, as there are now fewer options for sustaining nades to manually heal with. Nagata and (Rain) Firestorm come to mind at the moment. Not reloading with Blast Master got harder as well, so the loadout options are a bit more limited (though you could just accept occasional reloading). There might be some decent purple nades out there for Vampyr and/or MoD, but that’ll require some investigation.

For Christ sake, the build has been nerf at least 3 times!

I can one punch most mobs in M3 (2 if they have armor/shield) with a melee with Amara, one clip face puncher badasses & 1-2 clips annoited. I have youtube video run if you want to see. But it constantly have to battle with toughness and very hectic gameplay.

Hex is already weaker with the last last nerf. I like playing Moze grenade as it is chill. I never have to worry about dying. Sometimes people just want a chill build to play.

Now the only chill build is gone. I died in one day more than my entired play of Moze after the latest Nerf. Diversity is our strength!

if people like to play builds that they have to be active all time, by all means, but some people want something chill. NOW the only chill & tanky build in the entire game is gone!

Rant over., loading up Outerworlds after I have my breakfast.


A reason I avoid Zane (and why some love him).


Some people just want the fun taken out of everything and forget that this is a single player game for most people. If they don’t like it, don’t use it. I use low tier weapons quite often to break the pattern a bit a get some varity… it’s up to me though, not the devs to strip everything from me and force me to change.


Like I said in the initial post, infinite nade Moze only trivializes mobbing content because Vampyr makes her invincible, tone Vampyr/Hex down to a reasonable level and standing in place spamming Hex/Hive means you’ll be immediately downed.

Did you just returned from the woods or something?

Hex has been nerf to the gound, so has Vampyr.


So basically, you want all the rewards without putting in any effort. If you want chill, you could just turn off Mayhem mode. The game is really chill then.


I like the hex, I like good gear, but I also like a challenge. I effectively couldn’t use the hex on Moze because it felt like cheating (and since beams are not splash damage, the grenade regen was technically an exploit). You say if we don’t like it, don’t use it, but I like the hex, I use it on Amara. But I don’t like cheating (only rarely).

We both play singleplayer. I like it when top gear isn’t so strong that it turns on godmode while afk, you do. Whose opinion is valid?

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i felt the same way really. i had mistios hex, cloning and recurring hex - at the begining i avoided recurring hex, it was to strong. i spent more time with stormfront and fire storm too. now, i’m using my recurring hex almost exclusively… it became my only choice after all these changes.

i’m not defending MY playstyle. i’m more trying to get people to think about more then one side of everything.

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What changes? No other grenade (besides the Firestorm) has been nerfed, why would you need the Hex all of a sudden?

changes to moze, changes to MoD before it got bugged - it’s the third time they do something with that skill. also, vampyr is weird as hell currently. but actually - RIGHT NOW , i’m using a purple granade :slight_smile:

There were no changes to Moze besides the 2 second CD on MoD, which has since been reduced to 0.3 seconds.

it’s not working with any splash damage currently though. i emptied a whole 100 clip mag with my ogre and didn’t get a single granade or ammo back