Iron cub should be immune to it's own splash damage

Hello all, this is my first post in this community. First of all I must thank the developers for making such a fun and enticing game. I’ve been playing with Moze for about 6 days equivalent of play time and I must say that Iron cub isn’t programmed to avoid taking splash damage properly. At least when launching the homing rockets it tries to do so from a distance, but most of the other skills are a no go since it dies to it’s own damage almost immediately. So we are left with … nukes. Radiation damage does not affect the iron cub. That’s a large portion of action skills that can’t be combined with the cub. The obvious (and easiest) solution to this is probably render the Iron cub immune to it’s own damage since you unlike the iron bear and to an extent auto-beat, you can’t influence it’s positioning at all. What are your thoughts?

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Would be a good idea, yes. Would love for any weapon to be able to work on Cub.

That would ruin ASE cub builds though. You have bear fist, Salmanders, most of the miniguns, and railguns that deal no splasj and thus can’t harm cub at all. I think there being a few that can is no big deal since it enables a play style Moze has no access to otherwise.

4 Likes

Was about to post pretty much exactly this. Also no way to consistently get big surplus going with cub would be pretty awful. Not a fan of OP’s idea at all.

Iron Cub eating its own splash damage to suicide seems like an oversight more than a design decision to let one “end” the action skill early for ASE builds, regardless of how popular they may be.

That said, I could go either way: am happy people make these suicides work, and am happy with the leftover, non-suicidal weaponry for myself (non-ASE player here: Salamander Cub almost exclusively). I’d also be happy if they fixed it too.

I don’t mind, and I’m not even sure I’d change it (other players seem to love it). Its non-suicidal attacks are fine with me (I almost exclusively give it Salamander).

2 Likes

I mean they could also let us actually manually end the action skill, that would be the best solution, but lets be honest, that’s not gonna happen. So with how things are I’d rather still have the option of suicide cub. Plenty of good weapons it can use it can’t kill itself with.

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Could be an oversight by GBX … or Vladof! :open_mouth:
I wasn’t aware of the ASE build and when you think of Zane who can be immune to his own self damage. It only made sense. Especially because it’s an AI.
But… yeah. If you’re not cautious the poor thing can be sent to it’s demise.
Bummer. :man_shrugging:

People are doing ASE builds that rely on the pet randomly killing themselves? And then they argue against a QoL change for people actually using the pet?

You should be arguing for this if you want to do ASE with Iron Cub of all things.

I must say that personally I agree with Feculator and Dr Do little here. It does look like an oversight. Yes Zane’s clone is immune and none of the other “pets” kill themselves in this fashion, which is frustrating. Limiting options that are already available in a game is never good for re-playability. Even if you argue for ASE builds, the fact remains that random suicide isn’t the most reliable and optimal way to play. This is indeed a QoL change for people who want to use the cub (and paid for a DLC). There are other options for ASE. The Auto-Bear suicide mechanic is already implemented in the game. You could make it so that “baby nukes” users can make use of it. Manually ending the skill is another good option. Most games with pets usually implement it, one way or the other.

Gunslinger Jabber and clone kill themselves often as well when you use the attack command or give him a launcher. In fact, some Zane mains use Clone suicide with a burning summit in much the same way as cub to loop ASE when not using MNTS.

It’s not random. As long as you take the right hardpoints cub is pretty much guaranteed to kill himself within a few seconds.

Out of 24 Hardpoints, only 8 of them can harm cub. Cub already can’t be killed unless spammed with diadems or barrels. With the amount of damage it does, the duration it is out, and the health it has on top with literal immortality from biofuel, removing the only thing in the game that could actually kill cub at all would pretty much just make it a permanent pet at that point.

What’s this? Equip a Burning Summit, throw a Clone, it’ll toss a grenade, and roast away for a quick ASE trigger?

Is this a good or bad thing? My assumption was that the purpose of the skill tree was to give Moze a pet build. The general spirit of Moze’s action skill revolves a lot around uptime rather than spam, even if some of you can’t help yourselves and try finagling it into an ASE style for some reason.

Bingo.

It does give Moze a pet build, but it also gives her a gun build and grenade build. You have the option to build in a multitude of ways. Considering the amount of really good hardpoints that don’t do any self splash at all, is it a huge burden that some of them can be used explicitly for the purpose of enabling ASE? You still have plenty of hardpoints that don’t kill cub. Zane mains can’t use every weapon on Zane because some of them will kill clone as well, and if you aren’t using Gamma Burst gunslinger Jabber will kill himself with his attack command very often. Self splash is something every char with a summon has to find ways to deal with or use to their advantage.

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Cubs self splash immunity should be tied to a skill no one uses or auto bear (I dont think auto bear is useful for the cub). Therefore acting as an on/off switch.

This keeps the ASE capability while giving the option to improve cub survivability.

Just add splash immunity to an existing skill.

It seems silly that Moze, the splash character, doesn’t have it but other characters do, and while people figuring out ASE builds with a suicide Cub is some nice emergent gameplay I doubt it was intended. Making immunity a skill that you have to spec into makes sense so you don’t take away from people using those builds.

Should be with E Punctuation (full protection a 5pts).

This is because Moze is risk/reward like Kreig (just without the rage, meat bicycle and buzz axe). Meaning that builds would gain protection but lose on something else.

IC should’ve had a manual call-back, weird it doesn’t have one when IB does. Also, the call-backs don’t need a delay, we’ve got plenty of action skills that can spam ASEs anyway.