Is 'Backdooring' cheating?

In overgrowth, there’s a number of characters that can ‘backdoor’ the sentry,
by jumping the opponents ledge by mid thrall. The only defense someone really has to deal with in this situation is the thumper turret, since dodging the turret shots is fairly easy. There are a fairly large amount of characters that can make this jump, including Mellka, Bennedict, Thorn, ISAC, Kleese, and more.

Do you guys consider this cheating? Personally, I don’t necessarily think so, since it adds a third lane essentially and can aid in a push, although I think that it needs to be modified slightly.

I think the best fix for the Marquis and backdooring exploits would be, granting the sentry immunity unless being attacked by minions, this way, a Kleese or Bennedict can’t sneak around and just take out your sentry unnoticed, along with Marquis, but if you are indeed pushing, you can gain additional spots to help in. For example, as Mellka, I was able to help my team come back from a 92-50 deficit in the final two minutes to win by taking down the shield from this backdoor area. while my teammates rushed the sentry. After they all had died, the sentry was at 3/50, and I was able to rush the turret, sacrificing my life to destroy it and win the game off player score

If somebody loses because of it, this community thinks it’s a cheat. Jumping the back ledge is 100% fine. MarCheese is annoying, but not a cheat or an exploit.

That’s a good point, I think implementing what I suggested would stop all the complaining though.

What I’ve noticed though on this forum is that there is so much negativity and exaggeration, that I’m just flat out amazed. People have someone disconnect every match, someone cheese with Marquis, someone use Galilea+Miko, full party of 5, extremely unbalanced teams? those seem to really only happen like 1-2 matches out of every 10 or so I play, and only one of the ones I listed. Although excessive surrendering is pretty annoying, I wish I could replicate my 26-0 again :frowning:

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The only reason I don’t like it as a tactic, is that it is done more effectively by specific characters, which encourages every team makeup for Overgrowth Incursion to include at least one of them.

This only accelerates the stagnation of play on this map and mode by discouraging experimentation in team composition.

Given that Echelon’s layout allows for any character to “back door” the first sentry, I’m not sure why Overgrowth has that dropoff that only allows particular characters to reach the area. In Echelon, that position is far less safe, as it sits much closer to the Sentry and much closer to a Stinger Turret, so perhaps the solution is to open those routes entirely and adjust positioning on some of the existing defenses to compensate.

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Backdooring isn’t a problem to me because if you pay attention to the damage indicator it is easy to find people doing this and kill the without any permanent damage being done. Marquis however is a problem because legitimately the only way to beat it is get full push to enemy sentry in 5minutes and not ever lose push or use the Marquis cheese yourself. Clear exploit thatisbeing fixed because it has to be.

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Personally, I view it as being on the same level as Marquis sniping the sentry… take that as you will.

I can’t see that stance.
Marquis is a sniper, he snipes.
Benedict has a jetpack, so he jumps higher.
And so on.

It’s like complaining that Boldur melees you with his axe. It’s kinda what he does.

None of those can be cheating, cheating is something else. Those notions might be shunned by the player base or considered immoral or unwelcomed or, on the other hand, smart, tactical, strategic etc. But not cheating.

It’s up to developers to react (or not react) to those and do with them as they see fit. Whether they will see them as a good opportunity for widening the map awareness and tactics or will they see them as disruption and heighten the walls or something, that’s yet to be seen.

In my opinion, jumping around with a character that has the ability to do so, in a manner that doesn’t involve any mechanical glitch, like broken texture or something, is “legit”. Meta flows spontaneously. Developers react or let it flow, depending on what that meta turns into.

It’s the same as “people, don’t pick galilea” notion.

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Boulder can’t hit you with his axe while across the map where you can’t hurt him. Saying Marquis being able to kill your sentry from a place you can’t hope to hit him from unless you’re doing the exact same thing is fair is ridiculous.
First issue, it destroys the diversity of the game because everyone is going to want to just sit back and snipe their way to victory, use Miko and Montana to streamroll a victory, or use Kleese and Benedict to backdoor.
Second issue, Marquis can still snipe. Allowing him to snipe from an area you can’t attack him from is unfair. There are plenty places a Marquis can snipe from without being impervious. As it should be because that makes it so you have a chance at taking him down.
Third issue, It doesn’t take any legitimate skill and only hurts the community because there isn’t any point in playing if your opponent is doing this. As Rendain says “Why fight the inevitable?”

I find backdooring to be cheap, but not cheating like MarCheese. I don’t do it, but with a little situational awareness it’s easily counterable.

It’s a legitimate tactic, but not a very good one.

To a degree I think it is cheating but at the same time it is a fair alternate strategy. The Sentry bots NEED to be better at picking off solo players that 1v1 them. They are quite dumb and easily fooled by good players.

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Just make them immune unless minions are there.

Easy fix. Could have should have been done before launch

Immune without minions is a bad idea. Games would be even longer and some would be decided on score.

Marquis is only a problem because it is something you can’t defend against without the proper deterrents (phoebe is good at this).

Backdooring is not an issue because of how many people can so easily pull it off. It is a layer of strategy, and you must always thibk on how to defend on it. The following is a list of characters who I’ve found can go alternate routes/easily sneak past (i.e. backdoor).

Montana, ISIC, Thorn, Melka, Benedict, Kleese, Calderius, Deande, Oscar Mike, Shayne and aurox, Orendi (well times Nullify while jumping backwards), El Dragon (this one might not be true anymore with jump change on dragon splash).

That is almost Half the current battleborn who can slip past, whether from stealth or manueverability. Before anyone complains about stealth, it is easier than ledge jumping and such; and all 3 have a ranged attack. Oscar Mike is especially dangerous with Napalm frags, his rifle and airstrike.

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My team lost a game the other day due to backdooring, we were pushing hard after losing our first sentry early, came back and dominated the match in terms of K/D and in terms of territory, but couldn’t get a total win and their OM snuck behind our lines and destroyed the second sentry… you know what, I’m fine with that, better strategy on their part and we had an opportunity to stop it because it’s not like he took it down in two shots… I think this type of backdooring is ok because there’s an obvious stop to it, unlike the sniper cheese from the protection of your home base.

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Legitimate tactic. The person is not invulnerable and can thus also be killed in that very spot.
Marquis cheesing is another different thing since they rely on a glitch to be able to shoot through the ground with just a tiny portion of their head sticking out whilst also invulnerable to returning fire.

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Backdooring is not a problem but Marquis being in a position where he can snipe easily but I cannot shoot him becasue my blast shots are too thick to hit him because he is head glitching. It is already a bad match up with Toby against Marquis but at least let be able to defend myself. I have no problem with him being a sniper but if he going to use that spot to snipe he should expose for a counter attack.

As a concept, no. Backdooring a sentry is a fine tactic.

But much like MarCheesing, it becomes an issue when a player is able to position themselves and fire on the sentry without risk.

I’m less bothered by this technique though. At least it’s in your base, so pushing them away isn’t too tough once you notice them.

Still… backdooring should be a high risk, high reward play. Standing there shooting with impunity removes the risk.

Straight after reading this thread an Isic backdoored at 2 mins remaining and won his team the match, I was doing so well too, finally got my Worthy of Song title

“Cheating?” Not specifically, but it’s certainly an exploit, and here’s why.

Obviously “sentry under fire” lines were included in the game for a reason, but they misfire all the time… they also don’t fire when it actually is on fire, so that’s a glitch, and taking advantage of that glitch in order to damage sentries without being noticed is exploiting it.

There are also “sentry under fire” visual cues which are present as well, but let’s be honest, unless you’re out of combat, they’re almost impossible to see due to the way the rest of the visuals are over the top.

Obviously the sentry is designed to fire upon enemies firing upon it, but you can stand right next to the wall and shoot it without it shooting you, which is clearly not intended.

When you couple those things together, backdooring exploits gameplay mechanics which don’t function right in order to gain an advantage without having to actually play the objectives of the game mode (pushing minions)

So, while it’s not “cheating” because you’re not breaking the actual game, it’s exploiting issues the game has… which above anything else, is extremely unsporting and underhanded. The exploits need to be fixed, the sentry under fire notifications need to be louder and reliable, the sentry under fire visual indicator needs to be more visible given the “loud” nature of the game itself, and spots that you can stand and fire on the sentry without risk need to be removed, or else a way to prevent individual damage on a sentry without requiring minions needs to be implemented (personally, I’d rather see them fix the first three)

If you can’t win pushing the minions, then you shouldn’t be able to win the game, taking advantage of two exploits to do so is just pathetic.