#82

no we did not forget mate but lets be honest people were criticizing mayhem 1-3 not m4

and especially a lot of focus was on m3 because it was the ultimate garbage no good for anything endgame for the time being. it had the most skewed unenjoyable system in place and let’s not say that everyone who was criticizing was just neat picking. I can understand a lot of points where you are coming from and why you cut gearbox more slack than most people are willing to. But some times you paint it like as if people are dumb and do not have valid thought out arguments for why ■■■■ is bad. Yes some people were asking for op levels but most were not that is just true. regular joe might complain about drop rates not being good enough, i will complain about pulsar being garbage compared to wolfhound i will complain about inifnite commitnemnt stacks about fake grasps about snipers having same damage as pistols, these very things are not on the same level of complaining. People are often upset for very good reasons and m2 just was not the play.

5 Likes
#83

You don’t fix that by adding a multiplicative system where skill damage in increased by 20 times on the highest level without the player doing anything to achieve that
You fix that by tweeking skill damage on the base of the game so that it will be viable in any future situation

2 Likes
#84

The reroll anointment machine is a huge step towards fixing the game, but it’s just a step. The game still needs some sort of better endgame content because the raids aren’t enough (they’re not randomized, the rewards are subpar and the guardian takedown is annoying, but maybe less so after that update to crystals). Something like a greater rift system like diablo 3 has would work amazingly in borderlands 3 in my opinion. Anything that makes the game a bit more random cause it gets repetitive really fast.

Another thing that’s extremely important to get right is the balance and here I mean both class and gun balance. Zane is still extremely, over the top, god mode overpowered it’s not even funny to play him anymore. I feel like moze is clumsy (but that’s just me), fl4k could be better, amara could be more fun (again, that’s just me). Guns are severely imbalanced as well and it’s sad because gun balance was in a really good place before they decided to f it up with the mayhem 2.0 update. The problem is that the game became a legendary gun hunt, uniques and purples (with extremely few exceptions) being inferior in every way to legendaries.

Another thing I hate is that they included so many obligatory and vital stuff into the dlcs, basically forcing you to buy everything. They went the extra mile of being greedy with this game and released a SECOND season pass AND the fourth skill tree being behind a paywall. I feel like I haven’t got my money’s worth with this game and paying them even more for even less is not something I would like to do in the near future.

Lastly, this game is just as cryptic to mod like borderlands 2. They could have had the courtesy to make modding a little more accessible. After all, that would have been in their advantage since people would be more inclined to buy dlcs to play mods that need said dlcs.

2 Likes
#85

I only buy DLC that appear to hold value for me. So it is never a question of what is stopping me but rather a question of what would motivate me to make the purchase in the first place.

That being said, I bought the original Season Pass as part of a 50% discount bundle when the game first came out on Steam last year. DLC1 was awesome, DLC2 was solid. DLC3 was boring as sh*t (I have yet to finish it) and DLC4 I have no interest in playing as a DLC style (already played it when I played the Cr@ptastic Voyage in TPS and I did not like it then), plus the reviews have mostly been sub-abysmal so why bother?

My original feedback on the first four DLC’s from Sep 2020 is here (as part of an answer to the question why have you stopped playing):

Why have you stopped playing? (Opinion) - Borderlands 3 / Borderlands 3 General Discussion - The Official Gearbox Software Forums

And one of my (many) original feedbacks of the game as a whole from back in Dec 2020 is here:

Soooo, is there anything new? - Borderlands 3 / Borderlands 3 General Discussion - The Official Gearbox Software Forums

Along with a response as to what would make me want to play again from Jan 2021 here:

What would bring you back to BL3? - Borderlands 3 / Borderlands 3 General Discussion - The Official Gearbox Software Forums

This then moves us on to the components of Season Pass 2 - DLC5 & DLC6.

DLC5 is not a playstyle I enjoy, and the extra skill trees are a negative for me (I prefer more VH to more skill trees, plus I think there are too many skill trees to begin with). What might pique my interest is if they revamped Arms race into a full-blown game show format.

My thoughts on this topic from Nov 2020 are here:

DLC6 is centered around a character whom I loathe due to a set of piss-poor narrative decisions of the main game (which is the primary reason why I no longer play the game at all). The only thing that would entice me to ever have any interest in DLC6 is if either a) GBX rewrites the main storyline to fix the narrative debacle that is Ava/Lilith/Maya or b) DLC6 kills off Ava (preferably in a horrible, gruesome manner that is a direct result of her attitude and demeanor - like say, she picks an entitlement fight with a Tyrannosaur and in the middle of her snarky ranting the dino simply eats her…).

Some early thoughts on DLC6 (Director’s Cut) from Dec 2020 are here:

Directors Cut should: - Borderlands 3 / Borderlands 3 General Discussion - The Official Gearbox Software Forums

And lastly, for a broader perspective on BL3 as a whole, some old negative reviews when it first came out. I am especially fond of the last one, “Borderlands 3 Story is Absolute Garbage.” An enjoyable, if somewhat lengthy, rant regarding the problems of BL3’s narrative choice (some of which I agree with).

Dear Gearbox, We are not your Beta Testers - Borderlands 3 / Borderlands 3 General Discussion - The Official Gearbox Software Forums

7 Likes
What’s your Favourite Borderlands 3 DLC?
#86

I would have liked the comment but the hate fantasizing on a teenager girl keeps making me want to puke all over the screen
Keep yourself together

5 Likes
#87

Ava thread derailment incoming :rofl: (it must be her siren special power phasederailment).
Time to grab the popcorn

4 Likes
#88

How about just muting these people and going on with the topic

1 Like
#89

You do remember the huge buffs to Moze and Fl4k right before M2.0 came out right?

They were near perfect at that time. They spent 6 months balancing m1/m4 and Fl4k had many gamma/rakk/fade builds. Moze was finally not Meg from family guy. M2.0 put them literally back in the crapper and took months to “fix them AGAIN” and instead of fixing they just made scaling adjustments that broke the vanilla game with skills and weapons which is why a huge amount of people left the game in the first place.

M1/M4 was not perfect, but balance wise, it was closest while keeping the original game intact.

I hate to say it, but BL3 with day one patch is still better than this mess for a base game experience. Most the bugs in it still exists today anyway…

6 Likes
#90

Yep patch
Made me quit
I am occasionally returning for story content or…playing with my own mods

1 Like
#91

Was just thinking about that. I feel this should be a post.

#92

That system could be cheesed in borderlands with rats (literally)
It’s not necessary to lock these levels
Just don’t make them give free power to the player because that’s not the intend of a higher difficulty

2 Likes
#93

You cannot balance a skill the same way for 200% increased health as for 1,000%, M4 already showed us that. The skill is either overpowered for early game or underpowered for endgame. To get the solution you want, which is balancing the skill so it is viable at all levels, you need scaling.

This graph shows that pretty much all action skills actually scale below the enemy health increase at all levels, meaning time to kill increases for action skills every time you increase in mayhem level. That action skills do get worse as you go on, yet you don’t notice it, is evidence that scaling is doing it’s job well.

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There was no huge buff to FL4K before Mayhem 2.0 came out. Moze was the only one who got buffs prior to Mayhem 2.0.

I have tons of video using FL4K’s pets in M4. It was disgraceful. Mayhem 2.0 may be a mess, but it absolutely correct that action skills do far better in this iteration of the game than in the M4 days.

9 Likes
#94

Do you? Because I feel you’re misremembering things

Iron Bear was bad initially at M3, they buffed the bear a bit and it became much better and viable, then M4 came out and Gearbox had to buff him AND Moze again, because they did no damage. This is when Iron Bear became insanely overpowered and neutered the entire game because he required no setup whatsoever besides a Raging Bear or Bear Trooper to destroy Maliwan Takedown even at 4-player difficulty. M2.0 only made it so that Bear was THAT strong on all mayhem levels, but the inbalance was done earlier than what you’re explaining.

FL4K has remained largerly unchanged in M2.0 besides pet builds, which are in the actual state of the game better than ever with Warloader and a blue+purple Gamma burst build. Sure, rakks didn’t really do a lot of damage initially, but they were excellent to trigger ASS shield effects like Frozen Heart or Stop-Gap, effectively making FL4K inmortal.

Right now, FL4K has way more build variety than he did at the beginning of the game. He has standard Gamma burst builds with red fang, Rakk builds that can go both deep into red+green or red+blue thanks to the dominance rework, Mobbing 3-shot Fade away builds, Bossing GitM setups and builds with a st4ckbot, Pure pet builds with War Loader and blue+purple tree, niche builds with Gravity snare+Blind with anger…it’s not even close to the beginning of the game, where it was a crit Fade away build or bust, his other trees couldn’t compare.

1 Like
#95

Fl4k fadeaway was nerfed within weeks the game came out. Pets did get a huge burst to HP to contend with the Mayhem 4 levels. Moze got on par and viable with the other VHs. (a lot of this took place in April RIGHT before M2.0 rolled out, pet damage was next in rotation but at least your pet could still survive and tank damage on M4) Variety of builds also comes with COMs and skills trees. All which were limited and most the original coms were left in the dust anyway.

But here is the thing, the vanilla game was fine. M4 was challenging and fun, it just needed a few more tweaks.

Creating a new character to play with in the games current state is stupid. Literally it is stupid and broken and far less enjoyable than a run through BL1/Bl2/TPS. I am not even talking about the story. I am talking about how easy, unchallenging, the base game has become because of how they fixed things. You are a literal God the moment you step foot on Pandora now, instead of working to become powerful.

M2.0 has scaling,… but at what cost?

1 Like
#96

Next patch won’t change anything.
I haven’t bought DLC 5/6 because it’s not worth it IMO.
As for the Game itself:
*some Items still unable to come with anointments.

  • no way to view other players gear (like in the pre-Sequel)

*items completely unbalanced with little endgame grind (easy items =best in game. Hard to obtain= extremely underwhelming)

*Guardian Takedown needs (SOMETHING!) as it stands it’s the hardest content in the game with garbage rewards

2 Likes
#97

I respect your opinion but I don’t really want to derail the thread with how my opinion is different. The problem is simple - projecting personal opinion onto a wider group than is necessary. Not that I’m saying M2.0 is necessarily popular, just that it’s difficult to break that down into ways to move it forwards (bearing in mind the game will also have players that do enjoy it).

A lot of people found M4 to be a boring slog as well. There were criticisms all round. Maybe it’s just sample bias given the talent and specific nature of players here on these forums compared to the game’s playerbase at large, I have no idea.

People definitely aren’t dumb. I just take issue with “the entirety of M2.0 is bad” because it’s shallow first and foremost, and revisionist history at best. My entire point is that there are many different reasons why people aren’t engaged (or actively dislike) the game. That’s all. I’m definitely not saying people aren’t upset for good reasons.

5 Likes
#98

There was no “rotation”. You realize that FL4K’s pets have only received increased mayhem scaling or anointment values, and never base value buffs since November 2020, right? Clone didn’t either. The only skill that actually got buffs that would effect the new playthrough experience was IB in the weeks before M2.0.

Also, a pet tanking is not an indicator of it being fine. The barebones function of any pet is to at least take aggro off of you, if it can’t take the hits to accomplish that job then it’s just a trash skill.

Nothing, since scaling doesn’t effect the new player experience since it doesn’t kick in at all until M1, and doesn’t skyrocket until M6.

I think you’ve misplaced your dissatisfaction about the state of early game on the wrong things. Gun damage buffs are what has largely invalidated the new player experience, pets and clone still operate nearly the same way they did in M4 in terms of investment.

6 Likes
#99

To compensate for M2.0, is what made it invalid.

#100

Indeed, so? The only thing that changed is that for M4 endgame content 3-shot fade away was stronger, so people changed their setup from a GiTM to a vanilla FA with Megavore and Head Count.

It was only a QoL feature for non-GB builds, Gamma Burst already allowed pets to be revived inmediatly and never die as long as your action skill remained active. Pets needed damage, not health.

Not really, after the few overwhelming weapon buffs, M4 became pretty easy. It was only somewhat challenging if you were purposely crippling yourself with mediocre weapons or builds.

That has literally nothing to do with how action skills or weapons scales in M2.0, that’s just legendary weapons being powerful and gearbox increasing their drop rate, early on in BL3 lifecycle it was pretty hard getting one, so you relied on guaranteed boss drops or typhon purple weapons, now they drop more often and even in vending machines.

Minimal legendary drop rates and a more balanced Iron Bear is what will make the early game harder again.

2 Likes
#101

There were no skill damage buffs, I already mentioned this. Seriously, look over the patch notes from March and April 2020. The only action skill to receive buffs was IB. Maybe you’re a Moze main and that’s why you think every char got some, but they didn’t.

Unless you mean passive skills like TTB, Skag Den, and SF getting mayhem scaling, in which case that still doesn’t kick in until you get past M6.

2 Likes