This is why I refuse to do those videos, or try hard to resist doing them (I may have 2 or 3 out of 100’s of videos) Because I don’t want to play my game that way. I try to show people how to do things legit without exploit cheese.
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That is why giving feedback exists. Demanding is one thing, giving feedback is another.
Very reason putting ourselves first rather than analyse and understand, can cause certain level of backlash and become selfish.
Everyone can voice their opinion, its wonderful to express ourselves. But unfortunately in the nowadays people are ignoring its meaning.
The community claiming to know what is best, is already a concerning point, meaning, creators are not free anymore to create what they would have desired and free expression from their work, because of the community disagreement (not talking about technical issues, that is different, and we all agree it is terrible), which is very sad to witness.
Creating something comes with a full pack of emotions, risks, not knowing what is going to happen, but also the feel of the accomplishment to show us their product.
Fan bases surface from that work. Dislike and liking is part of the experience. And based with that, creators decide their next steps.
I understand the community discontent, but still got the feeling most are too attached with BL2 (my favourite game) and not allowing BL3 to grow on its own, just like any other game have.
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Good point
Apparently playing the game legitimately gives a lot of joy already. That is also why I enjoy watching your videos - you always take it slow, working with different guns, walking through missions with proper tempo etc. In the exploit-filled videos, the key is on “how to crack the game easily and fast” and in my view that makes gaming experience obnoxious not fantastic.
Let’s be objective - GB has made some mistakes but the game itself is not too shabby at all. It still has some glaring problems even til this day but it is definitely not a 100% failure, far from so.
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Well said.
The community can’t know what’s best because the community will never fully agree with what they want out of the game. Game forums are a very small amount of the player base and very few things aren’t debated on here even.
Not to mention we have no idea how difficult certain things are to implement. Skipping cutscenes is something that sounds completely easy to me but they’ve already said it’s not that simple. We have no knowledge of the overall systems in play. Not to mention how hard it is to completely revamp something that’s already in the game.
It’s easy to sit back and say 1000 bank items but what does that mean for the game? We didn’t have that in 2 and we had 4 spaces to give each character between each other. I like the fact that I have 50 shared spaces and hated doing things 3 or 4 at a time between people.
In summary we don’t agree with what we want and we don’t know how difficult it is to do the things we all agree on and to what extent. I’m happy if things the overwhelming amount of people want are implemented even if it doesn’t completely “solve” an issue. People will flip if we get 25 more bank spots only but I’d live with the fact that an aspect of the game people wanted improved was made better.
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Some things are the reality of the industry. Games in 2019 don’t have that much in common with games of yesterday. If you look at one of my favorite games of all time goldeneye 007 a beloved FPS. That game could only be about a billion times easier to QA than BL3.
You’ve got a few guns that behave almost exactly the same. A bit more or less damage a bit more less fire rate. You’ve got fairly linear areas that are fairly small. The AI all react almost the exact same way and look almost the exact same. You won’t find variations in what they fire at your or do to you. If 10,000 people played a level the experiences would be fairly similar. Some might snipe more, some might melee more, some might have better accuracy, but for the most part the possible experiences you could witness wouldn’t be that many.
Compare that to a level 50 vault hunter. You’ve got tons of different gun options that behave in tons of different manners. Some do certain things when reloaded. Some hit multiple times. Some behave far differently if hit in a certain area. Some have a percentage chance to do extra damage in multiple different types or slow an enemy. These guns behave differently based on skills that have been selected. Some of them behave different after action skills or because of them. They can behave differently based on your shield, com, and artifact of which come in huge numbers as well.
Imagine 10,000 people going from start to fight mouthpiece in their TVHM playthrough. You’d see different characters, people playing the same character in a very different manner, thousands of possibilities of types of weapons and those interactions and how they are. And we are talking about a very small part of the game and leaving out tons of details we could add.
You can’t have massive worlds with massive potential differences in those worlds and expect things to ever be perfect. Games that have been patched multiple times for years now still have glitches and bugs in certain spots just less of them.
In a sense it’s all gearboxes fault but then it’s every game developers fault because they are all needing changed and manipulated after launch unless they are tiny games and even those are often patched.
What some people seem to want is simply impossible. A massive game with a massive amount of potential experiences developed with limited resources (time, people, and money are controlled by publishers) that doesn’t have flaws and not pay big money for it.
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Darn I kinda feel my age reading that. Some of that stuff takes me back.
Does anyone who’s old school remember LAN parties? My buddy had his apartment set up for weekend LAN parties with a LAN hub and 4 TV’s we would play all weekend long…
(Sorry drifted of topic) Back on topic.
Modern gaming is a different animal, I no tec wizard but I can probably safely say that this game has more coding than my entire Sega and original PlayStation collection combined. So there millions of working parts instead of thousands.
Next pressure to release on time is INSANE giving software companies nightmares of being sued by publishing companies. Leaving them with a fix what we can now and hotfix everything else later mentality. Modern gamig consumers also shot themselves in the foot with this by pressuring publishers with GIVE IT TO ME NOW…NOW…NOW!!
Modern gaming consumers also give some companies a pass on things completely not working or not as advertised with some of the craziest defending and making excuses for everything you’ll ever heard in a consumer retail industry.
It doesn’t really happen here, just go to the Anthem or Fallout 76 fourms and read some of craziness people say to defend the worst releases in gaming history. Both games are borderline retail fraud but people defend them to the death…
Combine all of theses factors in together and here’s why todays gaming industry is the way it is…
To qoute Mr Torgue “Im still upset BECAUSE I CAN’T SAY F*°K!!.. F°°K!!!”
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80c is a safe (if a little on the warm side) temperature for modern GPU’s. IF it’s operating at 90+ consistently, then you should start to worry.
Carry on…
but the problem with your assumption is this, obviously things were kinda op, as people were melting bosses in seconds flat on tvhm m3. the guns that got nerfed were way out of wack. that’s why you saw all these videos, because certain builds were out performing other builds because of the gun damage on a lot of guns.
Nah you can’t pretend you are playing Doom or Crysis, right? After all it is a game which is famed for the cartoonish art style and light use of VFX.
Besides, later updates and patches also showed that the earlier version was problematic in optimization. I now run similar specs but my GPU is at 60c consistently.
Blame for what? Every issue is different and has difference causes and interactions. But I’m pretty sure by now devs can code better menus, more graphic controls to avoid lag complaints, etc. etc. There are so many games that actually do work very well straight off - despite these industry issues, and the usual unforeseen issues sorted through patches.
Comparing technology to that of the past is strange. Each platform team you would hope knows what hardware they are porting for, right? Perhaps the industry needs to wake up to the fact that poor release is just bad for business. There are quite a few industry examples of this.
Most feedback on forum sites is healthily charged. But thats good as it means you have customers that care about the product. Strange how some people want to create an us versus them mindset.
Also a lot of gamers are young and passionate and often their parlance is a lot more emotive, or ironic. So if they are screaming, perhaps someone, somewhere nerfed their job.
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Yes, its gearbox fault, 100%. Lack of beta testing and polish lead to this, there is absolutely noone else to blame but the developers. There is no way around it, and im not saying you should hate them, im saying its entirely their fault.
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Unless the publishers said we’re not running a beta and this is your deadline no matter if you think it’s ready or not.
Usually developers want more time not less and of course publishers are potentially costing themselves a lot of money with any delay.
Not saying gearbox doesn’t deserve any blame but some of the things I see people pissed at them about are probably decisions that they didn’t have a say in. COD is released annually and I highly doubt the developers can just say “man this would be way better with 5 more months of time” and get it. I realize that they are developed by different teams and circumstances at times but I can’t imagine that’s an option.
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100% agree. Still, there are many issues with the game that are the result of randomization and lazy development, talent trees are the perfect example, and almost all the lategame problems with balance too. I can understand that they couldnt improve performance due to deadlines (still their fault tho, maybe shared with the publisher) but i wont forgive lazyness and 1 and a half month without improvements while still launching events and talking about future dlcs.
I think the fanatism of some ppl is making the gaming industry so forgiving that they can publish a piece of crap and ppl would still praise it. I think the anger is justified and its more than that, its NEEDED, mostly because ppl in this forums tend to elaborate good critizism.
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Agree with all of this. I just think typically “blame” in these type of things is multi faceted.
Hell the biggest people to blame if people are mad for the state of released games in 2019 is consumers from previous years. We’ve (and I’m fully complicit) demanded bigger games with the potential to be played for hundreds and hundreds of hours and have shown that we will buy those games early and in deluxe editions even all but knowing now that they will be shipped needing varying amounts of large post launch work.
Another thing people aren’t looking at is yes they can do tons of in house testing. And at the very most have a few hundred testers.
Now when the game released on 3 different platforms and 5 million copies are sold a game as complex as this one is going to have issues that weren’t discovered in testing.
I know some things like banking software have to be released flawlessly but then the game may have been delayed for a very long time to test millions of variables to make it flawless on release.
Doesnt really matter when I m doing exactly that and still being accused as being “petty” and a “hater” for having a negative view…
That being said most of the “fighting” and drama on the forums comes from gamer interaction towards each other. Gearbox is free to pick the reviews they deem valuable. Thats why I try to word my criticism appropriately.
That I sometimes get baited into replying to an obvious troll or somebody who simply tries to pick a fight is on me but I ve come to believe (from parties and personal experience mostly) that you dont leave kids alone when they run around and make noise to a degree thats grinding your molars. Better to set some ground rules and reprimand them in a way that allows them to understand then endure and keep the growing annoyance to yourself until you lash you…dont you agree?
As for the OP. I dont see who else to blame? Maybe global warming? Or any of the current wars going on? Or religion? Sure you could that but I am a believer to put blame to the person who deserves it. In this case its not a person but a company.
Gearbox created this, Gearbox made all the critical decisions (even if pressured its still their decision) and Gearbox received the money from us…this is on Gearbox.
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Feedback is a skill that needs to be learned. And from what I can see in the world most people never cared to learn it or are really bad at it. Many bad reviews are nothing more then rage-fueled rants and venting. They are worthless when it comes to judging a product. Sure, enough of such reviews will prevent others from making a mistake but the creator in question learns next to nothing about what he did wrong or what he could ve done better.
I rage and vent in front of my computer in private. When I type a post or care to provide my view on the forums I m trying to provide feedback…very different things. I m sorry that so many people seem unable to understand the concept/difference.
Industry veterans and professionals are paid for striking a balance. They are supposed to come up with something that is enjoyable and attractive to the gaming community but also new, fresh and unknown. And if that works out they are rewarded accordingly. Theres serious money in this. Thats why I refuse to “play nice” and grant points for “good attempts”. This isnt kindergarten anymore. Its not costing me “nothing” or a smile. This was 60 bucks out of my pocket plus the crushed expectation which cannot be evaluated.
I could walk away and forget about it. But if I care enough I ll sit down, think about what I want to say and express my view, even if its negative. How else would I expect to affect change? Sit tight and wait for chance to work my way? Even (successful) evolution is not random like that.
The community doesnt “know” whats best. We as a community are way too splintered and fragmented to provide one answer, one direction. But we can provide input and suggestions and also lay out reasons for “why” the current product doesnt work for us. Discussion among us is actually valuable because it can clear up things or refine ideas. Thats why this forum exists in the first place I guess. Gearbox watching us and picking what they can use.
“this game sucks, **** you Gearbox” isnt much else then a blip and disregard aka “wasted time and effort” but if that makes you feel like a big guy…sure (not you personally)
People are not demanding for BL3 to be shut down you know. People express their disappointment with Gearbox to live up to Borderlands 2 legacy in their latest game. They spent years to think about, design and produce a succesor and the (gaming) world was holding its breath to see if they can make it.
And as it stands right now…nope…they didnt.
Possible that the game will improve with future DLCs and over time. But thats then to evaluate. I cant responsibly take these possebilities into prospect now and provide a realistic judgement. Does BL3 has potential Yes it does…thats the reason why I still post in the first place.
Borderlands 3 is insufficient right now. There are reasons for that. The game needs to improve. And gearbox needsto know why in order to make it better.
I dont see how keeping quiet and be tender with our response will help here. We are not (or at least I hope we dont) adressing fragile children here.
Sure is. Thats probably the main reason why we see such an outcry and community reaction. If it was simply a bad game and complete failure this “storm” would ve blown over already and would be old news by now.
Theres also the luxury of learning from past mistakes…not necessarily your own. In an industry where mistakes and errors can cost BILLIONS of real life money it would be even criminal to miss out on other companies mistakes. Gearbox could ve learned a great deal from Borderlands 2 and all the other similar genre games which released in between Borderlands 2 and 3. And they obviously tried. But still some things are in there that make me question if they even looked around in the first place.
You are getting pulled over for speeding. You tell the officer “my friend told me to go 100 miles”. Its still YOUR fault. You provide a reason, that doesnt turn you innocent in the question of blame. The publisher might be the reason but Gearbox still caved in and ran with it, probably knowing full well how it ll turn out…they still did it and “hoped for the best”.
If you want to express understanding and restraint then you basically support that kind of thinking and procedure. If you want better and still do it then you are just naive and part of the problem. Some of the greatest break-throughs in my life (personal and professionally) came from moments where others told me something I didnt like to hear be it some quality of myself or my work. And it was necessary every single time to make me see what I need to do…improve.
If you make the mistake to think of companies as “innocent” then you allow for this to happen again. Companies today especially the ones who have a board and handle millions and billions of investment are paid (and have learned) to expect, predict and handle possible scenarios. Theres too much at stake for anything else. As such any result will be investigated, tested and evaluated for customer recepetion. Or amybe Gearbox knowing full well that their productw asnt ready or up to the task released it anyway which would simply be criminal neglect. I seriously cannot see a scenario here in which they are not to blame. Only the “degree” of blame varies. Right now I m willing to give em the benefit of the doubt and “forgive” them these mistakes.
If I knew that the responsible people were sitting down and it was going like this…
“Hey, our product sucks balls right now, we are not ready to release”
“Okay but our audience are dumb kids, they ll take whatever we throw at them”
“I m sure some keyboard warriors will even defend us no matter what and generate more publicity lol”
“hey you are right, lets do that”
…I would even go out of my way to take them to court or crush their reputation online. Im not 
Borderlands 3 releasing in such a sorry state was NOT an innocent mistake, it was rather a cold-blooded financial decision based on the assumption that the community “will accept it without much fuss”.
Please…pick your side and reap the rewards accordingly.
You can take this into account and we STILL would have the console issues and crashes at hand. Also some of the most widespread PC set-ups were affected. Not to mention the design choices which have nothing to do with hardware variety and performance.
Stop making excuses, Borderlands 3 shows a lot of signs of being rushed out, half-baked and next to no testing or if there was, ignoring the results. Any criticism in that direction is deserved.
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I cant disagree with you, Ive seen you often here and you always put on good arguments