Is Homeworld: Cataclysm canon?

Please, if you’re just going to post your opinion, don’t. If you’re going to post legal information, legislation, official quotes, etc. then feel free! I’d like for the end of this to be clarification as to the true answer - Not a lock of the thread because it deviated from it’s true purpose and members of the community decided to argue.

@Jeffybug @BitVenom @Psychichazard

With one of my friends (actually, I’d consider him to be a close friend, but that’s probably not reciprocated! :smiley: ), for the longer of times, we’ve been disputing, debating, discussing, etc. as to whether or not Homeworld: Cataclysm is canon.

Both my friend and myself are both legally-aware, that is to say, we are both aware of the laws and legislation of our area in regards to many topics: One of such areas is IP laws, the rights of content-creators, etc. for just a few examples. However, there is a catch, and that is that he is a resident of the United States (state unknown) and I am a resident of the United Kingdom.

As far as my understanding goes, Homeworld: Cataclysm is canon, and always has been. In my entire career as a Homeworld player, since 1999, I’ve never seen an official statement that Cataclysm is not canon. Throughout those years, upon correcting individuals and groups, I’ve been provided with quotes and other material only to show them that the meaning they see in said material is misconstrued and false.

My belief, in short, is that if a piece of content is officially released then it is automatically canon unless stated otherwise by an official source. If a piece of content is unofficially released then it is automatically fanon unless otherwise stated by an official source (to be canon).

My friend, from what I understand of his views & knowledge, believes that there are caveats to my beliefs above. He believes that, when a piece of content is officially released, it is only canon when an official source states that it is so - Regardless of whether of not it was officially released. Likewise in regards to the current situation, he also believes that once the IP rights of a franchise are transferred to a new owner that all statements in regards to whether or not something is canon are no longer valid, even if they were stated by a previous owner and that new statements must be made by the new owner before anything previously believed-to-be-so may be canon once again; even if it was officially released originally.

I dispute his caveats and his claims, however, I know that our views are reasonably different & justified and that we can only come a resolution if Gearbox Software themselves (or any specifically-authorized employee) makes an official statement.

So, once and for all, I ask the following:
#Is Homeworld: Cataclysm canon?#

Thank you for reading. I hope this can be resolved soon.
“In good faith…”

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I think it has been said a fair number of times that the Relic guys (and I think Gearbox) do NOT feel like Cataclysm is canon. I mean, c’mon - it’s pre HW2 and they destroy the Bentusi race… how’s that work?

My understanding is that member of Relic (and now BBI) have stated before that it isn’t canon. This does not preclude people from enjoying it, wanting more of it, exploring the universe it splits off, etc…

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I’m pretty sure Cataclysm never completely destroyed the Bentusi race… Although the fact that an unknown-portion of them disappeared to the nearby Dwarf galaxy (which is present in real-day M51) would be a logical contributing factor to “Bentus” becoming the “last of the Bentusi.”

As for that previous member of Relic, any idea who that was, or do you know who to contact in order to confirm this? :slight_smile:

I don’t recall Gearbox ever mentioning that it wasn’t canon… I could be wrong though. Can you cite that?

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I don’t mean we have said, I am saying we have discussed internally… the sense generally was that it was never Canon. Part of that likely stems from somebody other than Relic making it - and largely ignoring it when developing HW2. With Sierra no longer in control I suppose that leaves many things either up in the air or open for action by Gearbox.

@Burly @thisquietreverie - any thoughts?

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Gotcha! :smiley:

I’d certainly be happy with any official statement from Gearbox, this has been going on for too long, it’d be nice to have the final word on the topic.

With that being said, I do believe that Cataclysm is in line with the current canon and doesn’t cause any conjecture, while the events of the game itself are… Different to the standard, the lore present in the manual about the Kiiths and other things in the universe is wonderful, wouldn’t you say? :slight_smile:

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I may not have any legal information to give you, but I just wanted to comment on that statement of yours. I don’t see how an official release automatically becomes canon by simply belonging to the same franchise. For example, the Command & Conquer franchise started with a storyline surrounding a futuristic conflict between NOD and GDI and the next release of the franchise, Red Alert, had a completely different storyline that only connects to the first game by some very subtle nudges but is otherwise a completely isolated storyline. Now you could argue that the franchise has 2 parallel storylines going which are canon in their own parts of the franchise, namely the Tiberium and the Red Alert universes respectively, but here comes C&C Generals and creates a third storyline that has absolutely nothing to do with the other games of either universe. All of these games are official releases of the Command & Conquer franchise and are not all canon with each other.

Another example would be reboots of games, they are official releases of the same franchise but sometimes drastically alter the story/setting of a franchise and therefore are also not automatically canon, without explicit statement from the developer/publisher being necessary. In most cases a sequel to a game is canon because it makes sense, just like with a series of books or movies, but I would say this is just an assumption on the part of the consumer based on a high ratio of such canonical releases within a franchise, but it’s by no means automatically the case as far as I see it.

I know this is only an opinion (which is not what you wanted, I know :wink: ), but I think I stayed away from too much speculation and made my case as logical and rational as I could and maybe it makes sense to you :slight_smile: .

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@maelrizzo
Makes perfect sense!

You’re missing the later section of my statement which says:

In the case of Command & Conquer, it is specified that it’s a different universe in the franchise, however in the case of the Homeworld franchise it’s never been officially stated that Cataclysm is a different universe in the Homeworld franchise.

Does that clarify my statement? :smiley:

I didn’t miss it, I actually mentioned it in my post :wink: but I don’t recall (although I can’t give you any sources that say otherwise) that Red Alert was announced to be none canonical by Westwood at the time and as I said, there are some subtle hints at a connection to the Tiberium Universe, I just wouldn’t call it canonical because that seems to strong a word for it in my opinion ^^.

Another franchise that just came to mind is Call of Duty and its “Warfare” series (so only the Modern Warfares + Advanced Warfare), as far as I can tell they are not based upon each other and simply use roughly the same universe without any canon that is being followed (never been a huge fan of COD so I can’t remember much about them aside from the very short singleplayer campaigns I used to each play once at a friends place).

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@maelrizzo

I don’t see it… o_o

It definitely wasn’t announced as non-canonical, however, it was definitely announced as being a different universe. Once you start getting different universes/storylines, you get different canons, as in whether or not something in canon in the Red Alert universe or the Tiberium universe… You get my point - The same can be said for CoD.

Yah, as much as hate to disagree with Bitvenom on something, the Bentusi don’t get destroyed in Cata, they just GTFO till the whole thing blows over.

And I thought pulsars in HW2 were implied to be a result of reverse engineering what was left of the super acolytes?

-Stefan-

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@sastrei
I would think that Pulsar Corvettes share the save origins as Lance Fighters, given they both have the same purpose, and a similar appearance.

Although, according to the manual, you may be suggesting a more-likely origin… Although I’m hesitant to say that the Bentusi would allow Kiith Somtaaw to keep the technology. Perhaps the Multi-Beam Frigate, with it’s unique “Helix” matrix, was the origin?

"The Pulsar Gunship utilizes a short wave Ion Beam cannon, dubbed the Pulsar by Hiigaran scientists, as it’s main weapon. What it lacks in power it makes up in size, rate of fire, and coverage. Mounted on the Gunship chassis, the pulsar turret has 360 degrees of coverage, allowing it to target Corvettes effectively. The Pulsar is also powerful enough to punch through Frigate armor.

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Over at the Homeworld: Shipyards website they had a HW2 pre-release FAQ and this question was among them, here is the link: Homeworld 2 Pre-release FAQ

Here is the Question and answer for those who don’t want to click the link :stuck_out_tongue:

[quote]Q: Will the events of Homeworld: Cataclysm be ignored in the game?
A: Designer Morgan Jaffit has said that Homeworld 2 does not specifically contradict the events of Cataclysm, but neither does it focus on them. Dan Irish (Executive Producer) said that the events of Cataclysm are not mentioned in HW2, but are accepted as having happened.
[/quote]

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@berkaash
Thank you! :smiley:
I guess that Cataclysm is canon then, unless Gearbox states otherwise?

Whenever I have historical questions like this, I try to summon @UberJumper.

The space game junky interview with Castewar (Chris Stewart) that has been posted here several times also had some information on what was going on behind the scenes while both Cata and HW2 were under production.

I remember Castewar from the forums back in the day. He was similar to Bit in that he didn’t take much ■■■■ from the community and would put members in their place if they crossed the line. He was also known to prove his point by jumping on WON and putting someone in their place over balance concerns.

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I’d be quite interested in an official statement as well.

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@douglaswilliamb @BitVenom

like @berkaash said, it is canon.

“” All the Cata stuff happened. The plot of HW2 stands alone - alone from Cata and alone from HW.

However, if you have played Cata and HW, you’ll spot nods in the plot and script to prior events - there are a lot more nods to HW than Cataclysm, but the Cataclysm events are not entirely ignored, either.

They’re just not focused upon.""

said by Morgan Jaffit ( Homewold 2 Design Team) AKA Entrippy on relic forums.

here is the link : Cataclysm never mentioned

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Thanks! That’s great!

@Psychichazard
I think this thread can be locked now? Given we’ve had word from Bit that they haven’t made any official decision, and also, that we now have two pieces of standing-evidence of the previous team’s decision on record.

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Sure, no problem.

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