Is ISIC strong enough?

Battleborn Battleborn Competitive Multiplayer Discussion
#16

You are only reading straight numbers. But the Wards only damage someone if they touch it. One guy might get hit by 2 wards at best. So you’ll deal what? 700 damage (flat)? And that’s the best occurrence.

Ok, so let’s see the best case scenario:
You got your wards ready, you Overcharge and Dash (Which got a charge up too, but let’s say the enemy team don’t see you by chance) You end up in the middle of the enemy team, which by chance was packed up like crazy.
You hit each of them for 365 Damage, and two character take 2 Wards (366 damages, as you overcharged the Dash) and another one 183.
So we have: 731 damage to two guys, 548 to one, 365 for the last two.

As an initiation it’s not bad. But as i said: No support + No control = No ISIC.
It would only work if you got your team right next to you, ready for it.

At best you get Benedict (Level 1) to half health. And that’s the least resilient character during the CTT. But he won’t care because he run two time faster than you do, and can even Liftoff. (And no, ISIC’s canon won’t finish someone with 600 health left before he get killed)

That’s also considering they are all grouped up, and unaware of you (Because ISIC is totally the character you don’t see coming, with his slender curve and quiet nature) so unless they panic and start fleeing instead of fighting (And at this point, you should consider playing lotto, and not Battleborn) you are dead in the next 10 seconds, best case. Even in a 3v1… even in a 2v1 as you will kill one guy at best before dying.

Now you got all of this to take into consideration:
-They might see you coming (It’s a good 1 second charge up, without counting the obvious Overcharge)
-Your wards might not all get hits, even more chance if you get the Knockback effect.
-You might hit only 1 guy in the entire pack of guys you aimed at.
-You will get CC (Like Rath’s Catalytic Smash, Caldarius Flashbang, Galilea’s Shield Throw, Ghalt’s Scraptrap, etc)
-The enemy will gang up on you. And from different sides.
-They will use their Escape skills (Instant Liftoff)

That’s way too much thing if you Dash alone, or without at least one other teammate (In a 2v2 case).
You won’t survive this. You expect way too much that things will go your way.

#17

Then either a team takes a great hit or one player is decimated. Good opening move if you have even on teammate backing you. Plus you got to pick your spots. You can always hang back and spout charged primary attacks that hit for good damage. Could take down a minion wave in short order.

#18

[quote=“murdoc55378008, post:17, topic:1280517, full:true”]
Then either a team takes a great hit or one player is decimated.[/quote]
Once again, that’s considering they are all hugging each others.

And losing one player in a 5 v 5 game is quite a lot (Depend on the game mode, but so far we only played Meltdown. And in this mode… It does.) You might also feed someone you don’t want to see fed (Like… me) And while you are KO, you get nothing (No exp, no shards)

Which is next on the menu once you die (You know, you, the tank)
You might even get you two killed for no trade.

As ISIC? No you won’t. Someone will spot you, and attack you way before. Any enemy which is more agile (Like… nearly everyone?) will see you and either attack you, or warn his team before you even get close to your spot.

The Canon’s DPS is horrible. Plus the projectile is kinda slow.
It’s good for a quick one-two, and then, that’s it.

Your way to initiate is probably more suited for Montana, which is awesome for initiation. Probably Attikus and El Dragon too can do it that way as they got Lifesteal and a way to initiate.
ISIC will just die. Not enough damage, no lifesteal, and no plan B.

ISIC is clearly a “teamplayer” character. You go with your team, or you don’t at all.

#19

I thought the cannon dealt 140 charged.
You wouldn’t attack a crowd unless supported. This can be initiated from around corners prior to group attack. This could throw monkey in the wrench really quick, the essence of a disruptor.
But one on one with a quick heads-up, this would be a surprising move.
Without the knockback good for planting wards after knockback and ult, you can set up super-turret.
If familiar with Monday Night Combat, it is similar to the Pyro’s Rush followed by Flame Blossom which was a great combo.

#20

Something like that? I think? I don’t have the numbers for ISIC, to be honest (Not even his health pool). But it’s probably close like that.
But you need to charge it, and the projectile is kinda slow, so it’s somewhat easy to miss, and the charge make the DPS drop a lot. Which is why i find it only useful for a couple of shots to chip away from afar before an attack.

Pretty much what i say.
But i also say that you’d better not initiate with ISIC.

Hm, no. As i said, you expect the enemy team to play badly.
ISIC only got one CC, it’s the Knockback (And only on the Helix, and on one skill), which still allow the enemy to use skills and attacks. He got no stun, no blind, nothing. (He may have a slow? Though? Don’t remember.)

He is better at absorbing an attack, or follow an initiation, than do one.

Which you can’t finish.

Which make you even less agile. The turret mode is really bad at close range, to be honest.
Plus you need to Overcharge before using it, else you got no Shield (Unless you are level 10, but i find the missiles funnier, personally)

That’s why i see ISIC as a follow up, not an initiator. He is better at the front line of a defense (To protect weaker teammates), or the second line of an attack (To soak up some damages, and “support damage” the team, if i can say so).

Nope, i’m not, sorry. So i have no idea what you just said, hah.

#21

Which characters would make a difference 3v1? No character would do any better at actually accomplishing anything.
This could be great in a group setting for opening or finish.
The turret is great at mid to long or at least it was in the CTT.
The charge up isn’t that bad and can be reduced.
This character is never agile only disruptive, which is his role.
He can lead if there is a follow up move from supporting character, which could be said for just about everybody.

#22

[quote=“murdoc55378008, post:21, topic:1280517, full:true”]
Which characters would make a difference 3v1? No character would do any better at actually accomplishing anything. [/quote]
My example is about initiating. Which usually mean you are the first to get in, the first to get hit, and the one focused on for a few seconds. So you basically go on a Xv1 for a few seconds.
And without a support or CC, you won’t survive the rest of the fight. And considering you are a tank, it’s not good.
I’d give you 5 seconds, max.

I find it meh. Average damage, no CC, too high risk.
There is better for Initiation, and you are better off not-initiating unless desperate measure.

So, yeah, not at close range, as i said.
And if you initiate, you are at close range.

Sorry, badly phrased; i was talking about the “wind up” time of the Plasma dash (Which can’t be reduced, as far as i remember?), not the charge of the canon.

Disruptive does not mean Initiator.
He is not even referenced as Initiator, now that i checked (Doesn’t mean you can’t, technically, but eh)

Plus, yes, not agile, mean you will rarely get on the enemy’s flank, or whatever.

Which is what i said.
No Support, you die. Support, you can, maybe, survive.
And no, some characters can survive an even, or even slightly lower number initiation without support (Montana)

#23

No support, anyone can die. One stun and you are toast regardless the character.
Everyone can open when coordinated. Even Miko.
I saw all different classes in a tournament open team attacks even tanks.

#24

Some more than others.

Not true.
Plus CC doesn’t equal Stun. (Catalytic Smash is a CC, but it doesn’t stun)

That’s not initiation then. That’s just attacking.
For proper initiating you need something that can stop the enemy from doing anything for a bit (Like Montana who knock back and stun) and can survive the encounter or take damage long enough to make a good trade (Like a Wipe for one).
ISIC can somewhat survive for a bit, but his lack of CC make it really vulnerable in the middle of an enemy team, and clearly not an initiator. He doesn’t bring enough chaos, if i can say so, to make peoples wonder what the hell is happening.

Actually, Kleese is better at Initiating, thanks to his Black Hole, which pull characters together in a large area, and at range. Plus you can overcharge his shields stations with it. Then you come in with ISIC with the damaging wards, that’s how you get the proper beginning of a teamfight.
Actually, that’d be a good combo, and if you got Deande cloaked near with her ult ready, that’s probably a team wipe.

But a tank can be a initiator, usually they are (Not all), so what’s the problem with that?

#25

This does make me think of an interesting team build of chasers though (clothes line, plans day, etc)

#26

Just watched a new gameplay video of him in incursion https://youtu.be/hRiqUnlUUC8 It may just be me, but he seems more powerful, and his projectiles seem to shoot faster.

#27

A lot of people are basing their statements on old data. I never thought they were going to leave him as is. He’s been tweaked since then and I expect him to perform a lot better now compared to then. Even then he wasn’t a horrible character to play. I had my entire team wipe out and use up all of our extra lives in storymode leaving me to face several mid-boss characters alone. I was doing quite well until one small mistake which cost me and got me killed. At any rate the experience let me know he was a good character that just needed a few tweaks. And if more tweaks are needed I’m pretty sure he’ll get them. I’m not worried at all about ISIC being underpowered. At the same time ISIC is a complex character and so not everyone is going to be able to use him and use him to his full potential.

#28

he seems a lot of stronger and cooler he seems that he does more DMG now and the AU AU AU AU is REALLY annoying

#29

That ISIC seemed waaaay too aggressive. Defenders I believe should be holding down the fort and tanking not chasing down kills. Was fun to watch nonetheless.

#30

Considering he never used his right click (Be it in Normal mode or Turret mode) yeah, he was kind of resilient, hah.

#31

Oh ya, I agree the guy playing didn’t seem to know what he was doing. I was talking more about the power of the character itself not how it should be played.

#32

Knowing what the character can be really allows the gamer to use them to their fullest potential. ISIC may be a metaphor for Battleborn. On the outside people only see him one way but understanding the capacity of his skills can someone begin to appreciate just what he can get done. The same with the game, I see a lot of hating/worrying videos of people wishing for Borderlands 3 or putting this game in a MOBA category before they can understand what it could be. I played the CTT and while it wasn’t perfect(character balancing, user interface and map layout) I saw a ton of potential.

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#33

Isic is my main. He is dominate if you use him right. Went 21-3 just a few maps ago. I’m always leading in damage dealt, assist, minion kills. Use the rotating wards that reflect attacks. Allows you to go on offensive for a moment. Dash behind them with the dash stun (when appropriate of course) good for some free damage. Upgrade your wards strength. I have almost all mutations unlocked. I like the slow charged cannon. When use your aegis shield to block damage while you wait for cool downs. Going tank mode with a good melee teamate or 2. Is almost God mod. Find a nice cozy spot on the flank and just shoot the fish in the barrel. Getting attacked? Just cancel tank mod. Pop wards and go on offensive. Pretty simple really.

#34

It seems most people complaining about ISIC are people who are unaware that you can “charge” his default attack and make it do much more damage. That this is actually the primary way you should do damage. They are also unaware that you can fire both of his attacks during his Ultimate at the same time to do massive damage to anything.

The character is well balanced right now and does not need to be changed. If anything, he’s pretty strong. I played a match last night where I was on a team with everyone under lv. 10 and the enemy team with a couple of lv. 60s.

Everyone on my team chose a support character (myself included) except for someone who chose ISIC. I thought we were going to get destroyed.

Instead, the ISIC player (and he wasn’t an amazing player) singlehandedly took on the entire enemy team as I (as Miko) and another player as Reyna constantly shielded and healed him to prevent him from dying. A Marquis on our team mopped up anything ISIC missed. We won 100-23 after initially struggling in the beginning.

ISIC is pretty great, especially with support.

#35

I fear the ISIC with a strong Miko