As I said, you’re making mistakes and that’s the only thing that’s giving the other team a way back in. That is not a comeback mechanism if anything it’s a lack of discipline.
Don’t get me wrong I tend to keep pushing as well since there’s nothing on the line anyway. But if there was a decent competitive/ranked mode I would not be making that “mistake”
If queues are quick I am not going to spend 15 minutes or whatever waiting for someone to screw up and hope my team capitalizes on it.
“If queue times are quick…” If queue times were quick, I probably never would’ve started this thread, as the other two gripes in my initial post are minor by comparison.
But they’re not, which is why I’m so anti-surrender.
They were fast enough on xbox. Now it seems to be a bit more random.
If you make a platform agnostic thread expect other people who do not have queue problems to chime in.
You’re not getting a faster MM without broadening the MM at the same time. The problem of the long wait isn’t that you’re waiting for other players to go before you, it’s that there is not enough players with an ELO clsoe to you to start a match.
You can’t enter a match that is already running, too. Nor can you replace someone ina team that choose to rematch together, either. Or being put into a premade, either.
So yeah, that doesn’t work.
Surrender is not needed to begin with. in sport, when you’re losing, you don’t have a surrender button. EVEN if you’re taking a beating.
And we’re not even talking about taking a beating here. I’m FORCED to surrender because others vote for it.
You say you don’t want to be forced to stick with a team just because they want the reward? Do yuou realize that it’s exactly the same than what I’m saying? I don’t want to be forced to surrender just because there is no incentive to even make a little EFFORT and TRY (just, try, you know) to play and win a match.
'omg we’re not crushing them, it’s hopeless, I died twice, oooh, they’re leading by 2 points, lets spam the surrender button until it’s accepted".
Look, just to be clear, if the surrender was only used when you’re taking a beating, I wouldn’t be upset about it. But it’s not the case.
The reason you’re refusing my proposition is exactly the same as the reason I’m wanting that change. I hear you, but I can’t agree. The difference is, with my proposition, you may be forced to remain, but at least you’re getting rewarded. In my case, I’m not being rewarded, and I’m being forced all the same.
As I said, you don’t surrender or rage quit in any sport, why surrendering when there’s like 10 minutes left in a game?
No, not really. Mistakes aren’t the only way. Your team can simply manage to do it by playing together. You would abandon all possibility of winning just because you’re not guaranteed to have that possibility?
I think there might be some reading comprehension problems, so this is getting pointless.
There are NO comeback mechanics other than the winning team screwing up. IF I’m on the loosing team and they have shown 0 signs of communication or teamplay and don’t have a lategame comp then I’m generally not interested in hanging around for 15-20 minutes hoping for a miracle.
There are some variables that can change this such as “casual” queue, having some people you know in the game, long queues, …
And to answer your question, if both teams know what they’re doing then with the way this game is set up I don’t think there’s any possibility of a comeback.
The lane becoming longer after 250 IS a comeback mechanic.
And comeback happens all the time, especially in incursion, despite the “no comeback mechanism”.
Why, because while there is no mechanism dedicated as a “comeback mechanism” on incursion, the evry fact that you’re levelling up but the sentry remains the same IS a hidden comeback mechanism, because it’s making it easier and easier to destroy the sentry in one single push compared to early game. That’s why so many latye push can turn the tables. There is no need for more than that.
Again, you’re assuming that the winning team is somehow interested in finishing the game before the timer runs out. I honestly don’t see any reason ever to take that risk.
Get the lead and keep it. The fact that most people don’t seem to realize this is a different story.
There aren’t a lot of really competitive games being played but if you check the tournaments it’s pretty much looks like the team that gets the lead wins.
No, I’m not. If they don’t want to push forward, it’s even better, giving us the time to organise and push big time ourselves. the gap will be less large than if they keep pushing, which allows even more for one single push bringing back the situation in our favour. Again, a won game is a finished game. Till then, if you want to think it’s better to wait for the losing team to react after you too kthe lead , your problem. Saw so many teams lose by doing this. LAte game one single good push can down a sentry, yet your team is thinking somehow that this push will not happen and isn’t pushing to widen the gap and end the game. It’s a really risky bet.
Not really, more control of the map is more shards, more xp/levels, more thralls, … If you sit back on your smaller part of the map you’re at a disadvantage that you won’t be able to make up until everyone hits 10, if you try to poke out we got the level and gear advantage. If you wait things out and go for a last minute all in push the winning team is closer and can just counter so again your point is moot.
If you want to see this in action watch any high level dota2 game where the team on the backfoot gets contained and starved out.
Organizing a bunch of randoms in this game is bloody impossible, in a 5 vs 5 premade situation people should be smart enough to make the right decisions.
Edit:
Regardless of the above when it’s random people vs random people it’s all up to luck on who screws up the most. If it’s my team and they don’t shows signs of improving the game turns into a waste of time.
How is it a waste of time? Just because you’re losing? So I suppose in sport they should surrender as well. I mean, if they feel they have no way to win, why continue, it’s a waste of time, right.
No, seriously now. You’re liking playing this game, right? If you like playing it, why is it that it require you winning or having a good chance to win to actually enjoy playing it? If you feel like you have less chance to win than to lose, then it’s not fun any more, it’s a waste of time and we should all surrender?
If I’m playing a competitive game I play to win, not to run around and look at flowers.
If I’m playing starcraft 2 I’m not playing until my last drone dies, if you play dota2 you gg out pretty often before the throne goes down, … In most competitive rts games it’s even considered rude to drag out the game when you can’t come back.
This isn’t a tdm game where you just kill people, generally I’m playing for the object that’s all that matters to me, if it’s clear that we’re not getting that objective then what’s the point?
Oh really, it’s clear that you’re not getting it? Or it’s clear that you have low chances of getting it? And playing to win has nothing to do with surrendering. Right now, there’s that Euro 2016 for soccer, right. Don’t you think it’s competitive? Do you think the teams are not playing to win? Did you see a team surrendering midway after getting lead by 4-0? No.
I’ve been playing pvp games for like 16 + years and sorry, but trying to win until the end has never been rude. It’s laming (for example, discarding the win but trying to extend the duration of the game to make the opponent give up) that is regarded as rude. Like, hiding stuff here and there on the map without trying to win anymore.
BB has limited duration for each game (30 or 15) so such lame behaviour is out of question. Not surrendering isn’t regarded as rude at all.
Guess we played different games then, coming from a rts and MOBA background it’s definitely an accepted thing for as long as I can remember. (E.g. see every broadcasted starcraft game ever)
Let’s go with the sport logic for a moment: If a team has a bad player, are they required to keep them playing? If a team member is injured and can no longer play, is the rest of the team required to play without that member or any other to replace him? No. As far as there being no surrenders, Boxing, MMA, and quite a few other sports have specific rules where people not even directly ENGAGED in the match can end it, even over the objection of the actual participant they support. Hell, that’s where the term “throw in the towel” comes from.
Actually, those are the cases when I want a surrender, and people ignore it. I don’t want to give up a match where we’re jsut BARELY losing. But FFS, when two people go double digit deaths before 10 minutes pass, Or when someone just is clearly NOT aware of how to play, I want out. I was in a game with a thorn. I’d died in a push along with a DPS, so it was 3v5. While our sentry was under attack by five other players, the genius Thorn was at the middle shard…shooting at a mikoshroom that was put there. Even when the Sentry BLEW UP, they didn’t turn around. They LEFT the shard(they didn’t actually TAKE the shard as well), and tried to solo push through their tunnel and tried to take their sentry solo. It’s stupidity like that which drives me to make a surrender.
But as I told someone else, I know I’m fighting a losing battle. Eventually, you’re gonna get your wish Zey. Gearbox will remove the surrender option. And I know that I and others will wash our hands of Battleborn after that. I am not here to be a punching bag for another team, because players on MY team decide to throw the fight by acting like idiots. When GBX takes out the ability to end a match with some kind of respect, and punishes people who actively disconnect, I’ll have zero desire to play it any further.
Rejected.
there is no such injury or situation ingame. And in a team, if you start a match and that someone in your team is bad, you can’t put it outside of your team until the match end, no. So you have to continue with him no matter what. Remember, peoples that are on the bench are still part of the team. So no, doesn’t work. [quote=“Khas, post:117, topic:1510480”]
ctually, those are the cases when I want a surrender, and people ignore it. I don’t want to give up a match where we’re jsut BARELY losing. But FFS, when two people go double digit deaths before 10 minutes pass, Or when someone just is clearly NOT aware of how to play, I want out. I was in a game with a thorn. I’d died in a push along with a DPS, so it was 3v5. While our sentry was under attack by five other players, the genius Thorn was at the middle shard…shooting at a mikoshroom that was put there. Even when the Sentry BLEW UP, they didn’t turn around. They LEFT the shard(they didn’t actually TAKE the shard as well), and tried to solo push through their tunnel and tried to take their sentry solo. It’s stupidity like that which drives me to make a surrender.
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Or you know, you have used the fact that you were dead and therefore had nothing else to do to communicate and stop them to do that… Except if you did it, why did you just stood here watching them? If they don’t know what they’re suppsoed to do, the fastest way they’ll know is by being informed of it… I won match against premade team with 2 complete beginners that didn’t know left to right in pvp (didn’t know how to take the thrall, didn’t know how to recall or that they could do it…) because we kept informing them of how to do thing and what not to do during the games with them. With the rematch, I played with those two 8 games in a row, we won 7 and loss the last one by a small margin…
Peoples are already washing their hands from battleborn due to the abuse of surrender you know.
Furthermore, while I said that surrender is not necessary, I do not mind fdor it to remain, as long as an incentive to not use it that often is put in place. What’s annoy me here is the complete abuse of it.
I often play a character that takes time before getting to its full potential (orendi, reyna, boldur, mellka). So peoples that look at the situation early will not see that and panic if the other peoples in the team aren’t doing that good either. But I know that I can carry quite a bit of team later on with the correct character, especially in incursion. Yet peoples won’t let me do that because they surrender early. OMG we’re lead in points by quite a bit/they have double of our kills! the situation is hopeless!
Well guess what, as Reyna after level 5 I just need one time to reverse the situation in incursion. As Orendi after level 5 I’ll probably go in a long kill streak and my current 1-1 will become a 15-1 or something. There you go, you’ll get your kill, you’ll get your points. So just.freaking.WAIT. But they don’t. Before you know it, while you’re in a middle a of a battle you’re informed that you have surrendered. NO, I HAVE NOT.
Do you realize how frustrating it can be for me when it happens so often? Should I really only play characters that are good starters just so that peoples don’t get scared by the early result? Seriously?
…what did you think i was doing? This is what really frustrates the hell out of me with the anti surrender crowd. That any bad play I bring up is somehow MY fault because i wasn’t being teacher and coach as well as a player. I shouldn’t have to TELL someone something that is flashing on the screen. The status of ALL sentries, allied and enemy, are at the top of the screen, and a big gold exclamation point flashes over one when its attacked
…what are you talking about? Reyna becomed a VERY serious dps threat after level 2 when her priority target makes her plasma blasts homing. Mellka is threatening from START, being able to trade in raged and melee, poison her target and jet in and out of mist fights. And…as you just said to me, if you’re talking to your ream, why are they voting for surrenders, when you can reassure them vocally tgat you will be coming on strong in the mid and late game?
You know, no matter how much you dislike that, when there is no communication in the group, it’s everyone’s fault. And especially, if a new players are put together with more experimented players and that the experimented players either just bitch about the new players or don’t talk to him at all, they’re at fault just the same.
You’ve learned since a long while to pay attention to that signal. However, you know as well as me that Battleborn has a lot of visual informations popping up all the time. A new player can easily be lost. That’s where we, as more experimented players, come into play to accelerate the gathering of knowledge for new players. If they keep playing they will eventually sort out all those informations alone, like we did. Or they may be pissed off by all the other players insulting them and screaming at them before that, too. No matter the case, if you want that right now, in your game with them, they get to know what you need them to know, your only choice is to teach them. And the sooner, the better. When your sentry is dead, you’ve already lasted to olong without doing something, I’m afraid.
Shakes head Who in hell would surrender the best ingame slow for homing blast? For what, getting kills? You’re a support for crying out loud. Your goal as reyna isn’t to get kill, but to get your teammates kill, by assisting them. There is no more punishing to any overextending opponent than the priority target with slow helix. The homing blast may be really interesting for those who want kills, but I would never do that. If you want kill so much that you’re turning away from a very good support helix, you may be better selecting someone else than a support in the first place.
Oh, and obviously, I’m talking about the helix 4 and 5+ultimate for Reyna. Reyna really becomes a strong support and a game changer by level 5. Before that, she’s useful but she is definitely NOT game changer. Especially if you took homing blast instead of the slow helix.
So yes, Reyna is a slow starter. She becomes game changer in incursion by level 5. Before that, she’s definitely not useless, but doesn’t bring enough for peoples worried about them losing to reassure them.
Because they’re spamming this in middle of battle, and that I don’t die a lot so I don’t have a lot of time where I don’t have anything else to do than typing. I try to tell them, but typing long explanation do not work well in those cases. The vote for surrender timer is extremely short. you can’t explain yourself before it ends. Some peoples will spam that thing as soon as they die twice.
Again, where did I say I WASN’T communicating? I almost yelled myself hoarse once, trying to convince two melees to stop sentry diving over and over, because they were outrunning not just the healer(me) and the ranged tank, but the very minion wave that was supposed to stop the sentry for targeting THEM. That’s why I keep trying to figure out what is so bad with surrendering. People just…don’t…listen. You can chat em up, yell over voice coms and send them private messages. And they still…won’t …listen. If they’re not going to change their ways, and they’re not going to listen to advice, begging, pleading and yelling, why should I stay in the game with them?
The best in game slow at present, is Montana’s Hailstorm. Because it’s the only slow that has a timer that can extend past 4 seconds if he keeps his damage on a single target. Miko’s comes a distant second, because his slow is both AoE, and on a direct hit can stun a target as well.
I don’t know how you choose to play Reyna, but I use her as a shield stripper and damage booster for the early part of the game. Electrostatic Induction at level one, doesn’t work if you target an Eldrid with your shield booster, and I’m not sure if it works on broken shields before they’ve had a chance to recharge. With Priority Plasma at level 2, I can trade against others, while keeping a very evasive defense, instead of having to focus on keeping my crosshairs on a fixed target. I then take Plasma Burst at level 3, and try to focus on Melees who are fighting the minions, since they’re more likely to run through their own minions and spread the damage with my homing plasma shots. VP at level 4 is when I swap to my healing or support focus, since by that point, I’m largely gassed out of DPS by most others. But, I retain my focus on disabling and keeping shields down, by also getting Thermal Equilibrium at level 6. Pulse Pounder at 7th, Most Wanted at 8th, and Long Watch at 9th, give my Priority Target a real chance of spiking damage on advantage fights, while I throw my shield on the most hurt, and swap in my own damage to help even things out.
That might be why your Reyna is coming on line so late in the game. Her slow is decent, but for that 3 seconds of a slow effect, you are giving up 6-12 seconds of not just increased damage by ALL team mates, but 6-12 seconds of homing, AoEing plasma, doing about 120-160 per shot.
It’s def possible to come back once your first sentry is down. I understand that in a equally skilled match it’ll be hard to push, etc because they have the upper hand with your sentry down, but we are human. People make mistakes, and not only that, but your team can just outplay them by focusing healer, etc. It can be done quite easily if you have the comp for it, i.e good front line, etc.
I will agree however, that some matches are lost from character select. If you’re playing in competitive queue and getting matched against players of equal skill and they out comp you it’s almost impossible to win. I don’t surrender often, but I think the option needs to stay; at least in the “casual” playlist. People who just want quick, fun games should have the option to surrender if majority of team wants it. However, in the “competitive” or “ranked” playlist I don’t think surrender should be a thing.
Unless there’s some emergency or real life situation at home, I never quit, even if we’re being slaughtered by a premade. Instead, I just usually try to avoid jumping into a match against a yellow bar team, but sometimes I’ll go for it anyway just because the wait times are too long as it is. If my team just got through being wrecked, I’ll just leave matchmaking and avoid going up against the same group again.