Is Rath's "Crimson Fastness" ever worth it?

Pretty much just what the title says.

yes. If you like looking like a badass then this is for you.

but if you’re playing any modicum of serious then do yourself a favour and take the silence.

but if you want to look like a badass and don’t give a damn about efficacy or general utility then by all means take it. preferably in PVE though.

okay but pretty much no. not really wurf.

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What he said, except for the part about sometimes in PvE.
No. Just no. Lame.

It can crit like 2 times before the knock up… But silence is to perfect to screw a push

Waaaait… I-I think Rath answered this for me once:

“Well, ‘ever’ is a VERY speculative term, Toby… If by ever, you mean “before the devs make it viable”, then i’m afraid not. Now…”

"GET OUT OF MY SIGHT, YOU LOWLY AVAIN SCUM!!"

I only ever run it to mix things up, but it has merits (bear in mind, I’ve almost entirely stopped playing, so my memory may be fuzzy on these points)

So, with the assumption that this was a serious question, I’ll do my best to provide reasons and examples on how I’ve validated it’s use over the silence.


  1. You can shorten fall time on a jump or double-jump (and increase velocity/distance) by using it mid-air.

  1. If you’re playing in a more objective focused game mode (Capture/FO) you can use this to improve your movement times/mobility (Alani’s Ride the Wave Helix is used in this same way) where you can avoid skirmishes/duels.

  1. (This one I’m the least certain on since I’ve been gone a while) is it’s ability to shorten/cancel animations.

  1. Lastly (and the most important in terms of competitive use/Character mastery) is it’s interaction with Level 1 mutation Concussive Smash.

Being able to close a wide gap into a stun with little to no downtime (requires a lot of practice or stationary targets) into an uncontested DW, primer for CC chaining, Body-blocking while AAing etc, can “feel” impactful.

Not to mention, as others have stated, it looks metal as hell!

The major downsides to this is; Rath is already often touted as a 1 trick pony. While this can change up the dynamic of the trick, it’s adding a ton of unnecessary risk to the combo, without a strong incentive ( Sacrificing his strongest CC without damage compensation, locks you out of stronger helix synergies later on, Severely limits it’s AoE to mid-range consistency)

With that said. This choice, and the level 1 mutation are some of Rath’s more important skills in my opinion. Helix choices like these, put the validity of the character squarely in the players hands.

Your skill and application can be used to utilize and open up new ways of playing Rath outside of his current type cast play styles.

Just my two cents,

Cheers.

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The only time you ever take it is if you are playing stun Rath. However, you are never playing stun Rath, and therefore never taking this helix.

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I would argue that even stun Rath benefits far more from the silence than Crimson Fastness. 3 common situations that may come up are the following:

  • You hit the enemies with Catalytic Smash, but only stunned 1 or 2 of them. If you have the silence you remove the abilities from the teammates (that were at least hit with Catalytic Smash) to use skills (such as hard CC) to save their stunned teammates.

  • After stunning the enemy, they recover and can escape with skills, but with the silence they cannot for another second. This is particularly useful when going straight into the ult after Catalytic Smash.

  • Sometimes all you need is a silence to prevent the enemy from escaping the ult due to teamwork or positioning, etc. So even without the stun having the CC of silence is significantly beneficial.

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So, just as I had predicted, Crimson Fastness is for coolpoints only?

They should buff it.

Maybe add a movement/sprint speed perk, or some other mobility perk to it? I say something like 8% movespeed boost or 9% sprint speed boost, as well as the lunge itself. Maybe even both a move speed and sprint speed boost (5% and 8% perhaps?)

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It’s not just for cool points.

It has it’s merits, I’ve pointed out a few of them.

It creates a similar decision as level 4. Terror From Above just gives Rath a double jump. In short a simple mobility tool. It’s opposite. Spin to Win a debated DPS increase. Mobility or DPS? A fair choice.

Here you have a similar choice, but it’s more lopsided. Do you opt for more mobility again (TfA being the popular choice at it’s level) or a significant increase to your CC.

The problem? CC is just far and above more vital for the try-hard not to take, and Crimson Fastness has flaws built in unfortunately (as I’ve also discussed) that limit it’s immediate value.


I don’t agree the helix choice needs a buff, maybe a touch-up if anything. It’s strengths would be more imminent if Rath’s helix tree overall had better thought put into it from the off-set. With better synergy above and below the line, it would have a stronger foot to compete with more zz CC.

Actually, Spin to Win is now known to be useless. You can increase the DPS of Rath’s melee combo by spin cancelling, going 1-2-alternate instead of just 1-2-3-spin. It’s a cool trick some of the PC players told us about and it makes Spin to Win pointless.

It’s useful for stun builds on Rath which is a fun thing to do sometimes in pub games. It’s a gimmick but it’s not useless.

Huh, this is new?

I’ve been alt fire canceling since Beta. 1-alt, 1-2-alt, are both super fluid.

I’ve even brought it up a long time ago, when I commented on Kitru’s guide, when he said the alt is useless.

goes back into the shadows :pensive:

Even with stun builds, you’d get more use out of doubling catastrophic smash length at six and taking the silence.

Fastness isn’t useless on its own, but compared to the silence, it might as well be. That silence is a great cc and killpower boost.

I do want to dunk on Benny with double jump and CF, though…

That’s why I said it’s a gimmick. Like movement speed ISIC, DPS Miko, or Assassin Ernest (only a few people will get that one). It’s only useful in pub games. You get infinitely more bang for your buck with the more conventional playstyles of these characters but that doesn’t mean that these unconventional playstyles are useless.

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Assassin Ernest op confirmed.

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Deande main as Ernest, right?

More like Deande main trying to make Ernest play like Deande. But essentially yeah.

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Well a montana push me off the map but double jump and crimsion fastness allowed me to get back.

So is not so usless but montana didnt push me close to the edge.