Is six skill trees enough? - Wonderlands

So, among the information dropped about wonderlands is the fact that when creating a character, we pick between 6 skill trees. Now, previous games have given each character 3 at once, and I think we can ignore the fact that BL3 ended up with 4 each (for now at least - wonderlands might let characters add an extra tree later, maybe) and assume wonderlands will have 3 trees per character.
Now, it’s worth noting that the season pass offers 4 “content drops”, so any of those (or maybe all of them) could be additional skill trees, but assuming you stick to the base game, 6 trees seems to be the limit.

Now BL1 had 4 characters with 3 trees each, for a total of 12 trees. BL2 and TPS both had 12 on launch before adding 2 new characters, giving them 18 trees total. BL3 launched with the standard 12, before adding trees for each character, giving it a total of 16. Wonderlands having just 6 puts it far below any other game, and even if the season pass adds 4 new trees, it’s still less than any other game at launch, let alone after added content.

We won’t know how picking skill trees works until gearbox shows us gameplay reveals or actually launch the game, so this is all speculation, but it seems like you pick 3 trees and then you play the game like any borderland game, leveling up and putting skill points into any tree.
Honestly, I’m hoping they add some kind of cool synergy between trees, so that picking, say, tree A and tree B gives a different experience than picking tree A and tree C. Maybe have some Adaptive skills, so if you take tree B, it affects how the Adaptive skills in tree A work and tree A changes how the Adaptive skills in tree B work.
So, for example, if tree A was all about splash damage, tree B was all about fire rate and tree C was all about slamming, there might be an Adaptive skill in tree A that says “after dealing splash damage, your fire rate is increased for a short time”, if you combine it with tree B, bit it says "splash damage and size increased for all slam attacks, if you combine it with tree C. And tree B might have a skill that says “the faster your fire rate, the larger your splash radius” if combined with tree A, but “after performing a slam, your fire rate is increased for a short time” if combined with tree C.
Something like that would make it worthwhile to create different characters and test various combinations, even if only a few skills were Adaptive ones.

But what do you think? Is 6 skill trees enough for you? Any thoughts about how they might work together?

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I mean if they each focus on a different thing, then it could be interesting. What they are trying to do is let us make our own character.
However all trees needs to be completely balanced.

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i am just assuming here that there must be hella duplication in these skill trees to have access to comon buffs like mag size reload speed fire rate. just laughing to myself how they gonna make them different but same but different.

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uh can you link the source of that?

To be fair, there’s a lot of overlap in the character skill trees when it comes to gear buffs. If the skill trees are parred down to focus on Class Specific Skills, and only Class Specific, not gear specific skills, having one tree per Class, with each having an “Action Skill” or unique action skill augments would probably be enough.

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I think it’s too early to judge, it’s an entirely new skill tree and character system. There’s even a separate Hero Points system so the trees will most likely be laid out differently.

Though with the focus on specialization and meaningful choices this time around, I’m more inclined to buy DLC trees if ever.

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I haven’t seen anything confirming the number of skill trees, but if it is true that there will only be 6, I don’t think that is too bad if they are defined and fleshed out enough.

Two trees for each “Warrior”, “Rogue”, and “Mage” seems decent if there is enough variety between them and potential branching paths within them. Like, if they had a “summoner” tree which you could branch into permanent pets or temporary summons. Then modify each type to a degree like making the permanent summon more tank v. more damage oriented.

They COULD keep things fairly varied with only 6 trees… the question is: Will they?

EDIT: fixed a few spelling errors

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moxsy talks about it and apparently the creative director said it in an interview

another worrying detail, there seems to be something like “anointed” loot beams again xD

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There’s only 1 character instead of 4/6 different vault hunters wich you customize :wink:

You can create whatever builds you want using whatever skilltree you want (and then there’s the weapons guns/melee and spells that further increase diversity)

So i think 6 trees are enough (i hardly use half of the trees in BL3 anyways)

Speculation on what Gearbox MIGHT do, is just as…well…pointless…as speculating on WHY they do what they do. If you buy this game, remember, don’t get used to the way it plays or have favorite gear because GBX is very likely to nerf nerf nerf. Just like they’ve done with BL3.

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“You’ll choose your primary class and then later in the main story, you will be able to slot a secondary class and mix and match those two classes and skill trees–that’s your character for the campaign,” Cox added. “But once you beat the plot, you will be able to go back and respec your secondary class. So you’ll still have to stick with your primary class, but you can try a different secondary.”

SOURCE: Tiny Tina's Wonderlands Is Even More D&D-Inspired Than Assault On Dragon Keep - GameSpot

I will say that I do NOT like the sound of this Overworld idea they are going with…

“…So it’s really more about the breadth of fantasy gear, rather than ensuring a high tick mark on how many guns we have.”
I can appreciate this a lot and it could potentially help with balancing issues, but I am nervous they will want to encourage weapon swapping similar to TPS. I hate constantly swapping between weapons. Get multiple weapon types with different elements and swap only when you run out of ammo or need to use a different element. That’s how I do it.

Great point. No reason the skill trees need to be the same size as any borderland skill trees. They could be four or five options wide, or something, for all we know. Or have more tiers. That would allow for more choice and more builds per tree.
We’ll see, I guess.

This was similar to my attitude. “6 skill trees” is such an arbitrary piece of info. It’s when you start forming assumptions/expectations, like “6 skill trees, equal in size, depth, and method of progression to BL3 skill trees” that you run into issues. With so little knowledge of how progression will work/be paced, the “6 skill trees” thing isn’t very informative.

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Thanks for sharing. Interesting that our characters will be “Fatemakers” rather than vault hunters. Definitely some interesting stuff. Not sure about anointment system, but I agree that hopefully they’re keeping any damage anoints low, so they aren’t the main focus.

Interesting that your Fatemaker will have just 2 skill trees, from the sound of it. Assuming 6 trees and 2 per character, that’s just 3 playthroughs before experiencing them all, unless there’s some way of changing them by combination. I’m just wondering how similar different characters will feel, in terms of gameplay, since mny people mentioned that different vault hunters in BL3 could feel too similar in gameplay. Hopefully the extra types of weaponry and increased character customisation makes up for it.

Yeah. I was going on the fact that it’s being built in the same engine, with a lot of core elements being retained, but there’s no guarantee that would affect stuff like size or shape of skill trees.

there will be more combinations
you can choose 1 from the start and a second one within the story
apparently after beating the game, you can switch the second one like a respec

Maybe it’s just me, but this still sounds pretty restrictive. Like, “cool, probably getting the PC version so I can pick and choose freely without having to replay 3+ times” kind of restrictive.

what do you mean?
you can create different characters

I mean, I don’t want to have to build a whole new character just to try another main skill. Once you can respec, you should be able to do so from the ground up.

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well then you’re probably just not into the rpg genre i dunno
in diablo you cant just choose to make your fully max level barb a sorc at an npc xDDDD