Is unforgiven a joke?

Problem with it being a sniper pistol is amazing Grace exists and that thing is good good damage decent crit multiplier plus restores ammo on crit

The weapon is absolutely great before reaching M4. In M4 it’s not bad, but definitely far from the great weapons

just fyi , the gun is always been like that in previous borderlands , the only really to use it would be the masher variant

I feel like maybe this is getting into subtleties, but synergies are really just something that push weapons over the top. You can have all the synergies in the world, but they won’t make up for something like low base damage or slow fire rate. A good example of this would be the Storm from BL2 - great synergies with several characters (Gaige with shock, Maya with grouping enemies up, etc.), but just not powerful or fast enough.

My only point is that to be truly great, it requires all those things. This is why I mentioned the fact of multiple projectiles. In BL3, not all, but a lot of the weapons that really shine have multiple projectiles or some other similar gimmick that makes them great PLUS good fire rate PLUS high damage PLUS synergies.

I would also say that what you pointed out with the Craps and Playin’ Dirty is not exactly something that makes the Craps better on him than any other single projectile (or low projectile count) weapon. The literal same thing applies to any single projectile weapon on Zane. It’s not exactly a synergy that is unique to the Craps. He just happens to have a skill that gives you a chance to fire an extra projectile, which applies to literally every weapon on Zane (if you spec PD). Is that a “synergy”? Eh…maybe?

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The synergy with the Craps is from all of what I mentioned, including but not limited to playing dirty. Two chances per pellet to proc Seein Dead, CCC, banjo, crits, etc, plus two applications of cryo anointment per pellet, plus high damage per projectile. It’s… a lot.

Am I forgetting something about the Craps? It’s been a while since I used it or played Zane - but isn’t it just a single projectile Torgue that fires only in sticky mode and deals splash? Doesn’t what you have said apply to any single-projectile Torgue sticky?

If I am forgetting something about the Craps I apologize (seriously, I may be forgetting something).

Once per magazine, it fires 7 projectiles. For Zane, it’s incredible.

The same could be said for the Duc which has an impact, a secondary explosion and even chains to 2 more enemies if you crit. I would argue it even performs better then craps on Zane even though it’s still considered a pretty medicore weapon.

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It isnt much different on moze; the pistol itself has a random chance to fire 5 projectiles throughout the magazine. 1 dead center or 5 surounding - sort of reference to casino game actually called craps

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Gotcha, I clearly forgot about that. When you proc both PD and the multi-pellet thing procs on the Craps, I assume you get one extra projectile? Not many, right? If so, again, why is this a unique synergy to the Craps? Not saying it is not good, I haven’t played with it enough to remember - just saying that any single projectile weapon on Zane can get this benefit through PD.

IMO, a “synergy” would be the interaction between the Projectile Recursion and Indiscriminate on Amara. Or between the Brainstomer and Megavore on Fl4k. Something like that.

Correct, it has synergy with all 3 characters in a way; but i would say less with zane ; fl4k with megavore + twofang + leave no trace + headcount, moze with redistribution + means of destruction + matched set + forge + fire in the skag den ( + stoke the embers if inciendiary)
(I havn’t gone through with both zane and amara so i may miss some)

Kab, the Craps badly outperforms the Duc for Zane with Seein Dead. With a CCC build, it isn’t even close.


That is one piece of what I called out. Two checks per pellet for CCC is something specific to Zane. The sticky - Violent Momentum interaction is another.

Fair enough.


I got one really early on as a low-level random drop and it was amazing… I was popping heads left and right… as soon as that crit % stopped keeping up with enemy hp enough to take people out in one or two shots (I think this was before the end of the first playthrough) it became bank trash.

Nope, the craps actually splits once per magazine, meaning if you shoot two bullets both split, not just adding one(think of the lyudmila splitting into three, zane adds a starting pellet so it doubles overall pellets, just the craps splits as soon as it is shot)

This means you have 14 stickies in 1 click, that is the synergy he is talking about

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