Issue 3 - Balance Adjustments

Edit to reflect current (ongoing) balance changes in reasonable detail… (@thisquietreverie, @Cloaked, etc).

This is a WIKI post, meaning multiple people can author it. That said, please do not make edits here unless you are actively involved in determining balance changes. If you have an opinion or comment, make them below. Feedback will be taken and applied here (and then to the build).

Edit by Cloaked: See this thread for details on current balance changes included in the patch preview: Changelist - Current Preview

4 Likes

Hiigaran carriers are too expensive. One costs 2800 with no modules, while a HW1 carrier costs 3000 with the ability to make fighters, corvettes, and frigates, and the ability to hyperspace. With the cheapest production module, a Hiigaran carrier costs 3300. Vaygr and HW1 production seems evenly matched, but the Hiigaran’s have trouble keeping up with their expensive carriers. Suggest reducing Hiigaran carrier price to 2400.

The hw1 carrier is only unlocked after a long expensive research (3500 vs 1800 of the hig), and it takes way longer to be built (210secs vs 65secs of the hig)

HW1 generally don’t need a second carrier as quickly since they already have 4 production slots with the MS and first carrier.

I’ve also noticed that destroyers and carriers have been swapped in research for HW1. Intentional I know, but this makes it a lot slower for HW1 to get destroyers. They also don’t need carriers as fast so it might be good to undo it. It also doesn’t really make sense canonically. Why is the super capital ship research good for missile destroyers but not regular destroyers?

Most of the hw1 ships take way longer to be built, so 1 production slot in hw2 in some cases worth the same of 2 production slots in hw1 , the ion frigate is a good example, it takes 45 secs with the hig (without the improved manufacturing upgrade) and takes 73 to hw1.

Actually times were readjusted in the research, so destroyers takes almost the same time to be reached.

I almost feel like this should be changed. HW1 carriers should be able to produce more, but be more expensive, and take longer to get. While HW2 carriers should be cheaper and able to be built earlier.

I think that asymmetric balance is far better than trying to make the factions more similar to each other.

Well… It does takes longer to get a carrier with hw1, it is not symmetrical

3500 rus and 210 seconds vs 1800 and 65 seconds seems pretty asymmetrical, not to mention the time it takes to get the research done

So it takes longer to get a carrier with HW1, but two HW1 production lines equates to one HW2 production line. So they are equal but HW1 takes longer to get a carrier? Does this not put HW1 at a disadvantage?

HW2 Carriers can’t build any combat units without additional facility upgrades. Leaving aside the Vagyr CC (since it is a special case of quantity over quality) a Hig CC needs to build a Fighter, Corvette and Frigate Facility plus a hyperspace module to match the capabilities of a stock HW1 CC.

If you add those costs into the Hig CC equation (even only one facility and the hyperspace module) the balance becomes a lot less asymmetric.

Not all units take twice as long to produce as hw1, they are similar, not equal, carriers balance it is not like a regular ship balance, it is about all the production, times and costs, so it is very complex, for now lets just say, yes hw1 carrier can produce a little more, that is why they are harder to produce, and yes hw2 carrier produces a little less, that is why they can be produced faster and are easier to get.

HW1 corvettes generally aren’t worth getting. The optimal thing to do is always to skip corvettes and go straight for frigates picking up a little fighter research on the way because it’s cheap. They still don’t move while attacking most of the time in the latest prerelease.

Frigates in general are VERY good. Every match I’ve played post-patch has been determined by frigates. I don’t think they should be nerfed, but there need to be more ways of dealing with them besides making more anti-capital ship frigates than the enemy.