Item system thoughts... many thoughts

Hello my dear Battleborn.

Item system balancing kinda talk… again.
This time serious.

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Seriously.

Main idea:

While you (count me in) are playing in King of the Kills our battleborn soldiers are leaveing cause fun has ended and all we have now is item grinding and PvP playskill increasement. All of this is time consuming. It works like:

  1. Improve PvP skill.
  2. Get desirable legendary… if lucky.
  3. Then learn how to use it in PvP.
  4. Then DLC come up… and here is new Legendaries.
  5. Repeat till…

And at the end we will get no new blood, cause godlike items are hard to get (or DLC is needed). They simply won’t be able to reach top level\grinding\farminig\lucky players. And we will be forgotten.

I made a duplicate thread in reddit forum link.

This time we will talk stricktly about item system.
No nostalgia, no whine, no jokes… no noes

First post is here - don’t read it seriosly… unless you want to take a quick long brief about what i’m talking.

Quick quick brief:

  1. PvP and PvE items must be seperated.
  2. PvP items can only drop in PvP modes.
  3. Numbers on PvP items must be equalized.
  4. Legenadries needed a big fat help to become useful.
  5. PvE items can be left untouched (but this is no fun at all).

And i tell you why.

‘Why’ number one - PvE and items:

  1. The only difficulty in all missions i’ve played was a no gravity knockback that send you flying of the map (Remember Borderlands with all arenas on raid bosses). You’ve already know that so will be no descriptions of this game engine limitations. I think its an engine fault.

  2. It is a matter of hero, DPS and survive ability how long does it take to finish any mission. I know a guy who get Ghalt before command rank 40. And he killed Rendein solo on andvanced playing Marquis in an hour. As an addition, i guessed, and it is already here solo advanced hardcore walkthrough.
    You can say that he used legendaries that helped. But truly all you need is a good survival tools or skiils accordinaly to your character for solo play.

  3. To be honest PvE in BattleBorn isn’t that fun as in Borderlands. Because playing one Gunzerker in BL2 you could be Ghalt, Benedict, Montana, Mellka, Marquise simultaneously. Because weapon determines your gamestyle. Of course you are playing without all BB skills but i’m trying to point on Borderlands weapons archetypes that were used to create BB characters. This can be said about all characters. I personally like Mechromant - Shane&Aurox parallels.
    Who have played BL\BL2\BLpreseq knows how fun and tough gunfights in this games. I can continue describing but it better to feel it yourself or look King Gothaleon streams recaps.

  4. As a result - PvE can be played without items or! GBX can create ridiculously overpowered legendaries as it was in BL series just for fun.

Some info to think about - As GearBox mentioned earlier BattleBorn was four years in development. And i’ve read a Rath’s PvP guide of one of the developers that said that that man had played tested Rath for two years. So playable some kind of alpha GBX had long ago. And i don’t understand how they can left some annoying game things like that knockback… yes yes, no whine, i remember.

All i trying to show you is that THIS game was created for PvP (there are helix upgrades that works only against other battleborn like Orendi’s lvl10 Pillarstorm).

‘Why’ number two - PvP and items:

OFFTOP about characters.

This game has already 26 (will be 30) heroes. They have different roles and playstyles. They were designed to work as team, symbiosis to win a match BUT not to get the most kills (it is ego satisfactional option - I agree it’s fun to taunt triple kill but you still can be killed by two survived and ruin your team push - remember to taunt only pentakills). Even if there are two or three or all of characters in group are high DPS heroes minimum three of them will take support role for half of the game. You can’t play as main DPS all the time in random parties. Teamplay is crucial in this game.
!Can’t stay aside of hero picking problem - we need information who pick who in enemy team to not get in a 5-meele vs 5-ranged or any other not so balanced situation.

OFFTOP end

  • We have 18 item types.

  • Do you know how many legendary pieces do we have so far?. 108 items!
    This number will grow to 112 when 4 new characters come up. And, please take attention, will grow even more with all of DLC we will get.

What so bad about it you can ask.

  • While 18 item types is ok. And we can balance their cost with items flaws. So we can maybe preferably get near what we want. I don’t have all of secondary stat conditions to show you real maths (it’s too time consuming). But come on, 90% of all this stuff is no good at all.

Why?

  • Because not all of them have duration/cooldown. Like ‘after taking damadge to health\shield get %% for 3\5 seconds’ or after pickup or builing.

  • Because fights can take really long time and everything less than 20-30 seconds is not necessary and rotation of temrorary buff is too time consuming.

  • Because all of the increases in secondary stats are not so big to take them serious. Personaly i’d leave 5% of any stat if it will not disturb me pushing, pursuing a kill or defensing. Is it so bad that i get 20% of available 25% or even 30% but with more easy and/or for longer time?

  • Because there are not so many (oh so many) characters who can make a FATALITY of fully healed characters in less then 10 seconds with some skill so you can escape death… and even then CC is needed.

Offtop hero list

Ghalt-It’s-a-trap-combo, Marquis-only-with-mouse-headshots, Attikus-3rd-lvl-Fists-of-Death, Rath-Spin2Win, El Dragon-EnFuego-Splash, Galilea-Soo-fast-spining-sword , Phoebe-Stab-in-your-teeth, Thorn-Nature-bombs, Toby-Mine-stun-Plasmashot.
And at last Orendi with the most pentakill possibilities.

Offtop end

Now legendaries.

  • The biggest problem now is grind.

  • I don’t know how all of items abilities works but imagine a group of five with Vigilance Link (+210-280hp to teammates (minimum 1300hp for every one)) plus Oath of the Sustained (~8% of damage to enemy health is returned to allies as healing(this is like Rath’s passive but for all)). What can we do with this combo? How to counter?

  • Or Poor “M-Pulse” Controller. 67 AOE damage after a critical kill. Even minions does not die after some ult. How it can be even not ‘meh’?

  • Yes, there are very good working legendaries. I mean so good that they are already rebalanced or swithced off. But there are more of them. Chrono Key… 500 damage? are you kidding? said El Dragon, Thorn, Orendy, Oscar Mike and many others.

  • Legendary gear doesn’t feel like legendary. This is like Diablo III first year when ‘yellows’ were more better than ‘orange’ and set items bonuses.

  • All of this pretty-glistening-orange-legendaries have one price! 1800 shards is all that seperate you from having an OP gear after 2-3 minutes of a match. And as a result - you get an advantage and can get a BIG ONE.

  • And -how-i-can-forget-about-it- RNG. Yes. This fella is a badass. You can get desirable item from your first run. But what if you don’t GET it after fortieth try on advanced? If we take 40 minutes per advanced misssion it will be 26 HOURS of playing without statistic and loading screens.

Main idea in this part is - there is no competitive PvP. Yes. You got me right. Without information about enemy team picks and all-items-for-all there will be no honest matches.

And ‘Why’ number three Or What to do with all of this:

  1. Make all numbers on corresponding items equal. Yes, i’ve told up above about 5%-10%. But all players must have even chances to stay competitive (you’ll hear it even more… and ‘even’ too)

  2. Make all items available for purchase in a PvP Match only and without DLC.

  3. This is the hardest one. For the players. Forget about farmed\grinded items. Cause all item will be available to buy in a match. I don’t know how to compliment loss of time spent but GearBoX, i believe, can do something to substitute.

  4. Make ‘right’ cost for legendary special powers.

My sugestion is simple enough:

Use a system like in Battleborn TAP. Example:

  • This is a first hard moment. Choose or byu 3 of 18 basic items.

  • But at the beggining of a match. When all of the players are waiting a door to open there are planty of time to make proper choice.

  • Upgrade for shards rarity to green.

  • Choose for free a faction upgrade. This is a not so simple but

  • Make all of faction atributes appear on an item but with ‘green’ numbers/percents

  • Make certain fatction upgrades on corresponding items. And yes with ‘green’ numbers

  • Upgrade to blue rarity. With ‘blue’ numbers.

  • Upgrade to purple rarity. With ‘purple’ numbers.

  • This is second hard moment. Upgrade to unique rarity.

  • Simply open full list of all available oranges for that item class. We got 18 item types and 112 legendaries, it’s 6,2 legenary per item type. This is not so many items to choose on a screen.

  • There can be limitations like if you choose jennerit faction, than at the orange rarity upgrade you can choose only from jennerit legendaries. But this is optional.

  • All hero specific legendaries goes here. And can only become available after completing his missions.

  • Make adequate shard cost for upgrades.

That’s all. We got all items. We got all faction upgrades. And all of the legendaries.

  • We can get even further. Do you like set bonuses? Then what do you think about three items of one faction special bonus?

Afterwords.

I really like this game. It even better than Destiny from Bungie and Overwatch Blizzard.
But GearBox please don’t make same mistakes like Bungie or Blizzard have done.

Make a look how they started. How many promises they made. And how little they’ve kept.
How many hate they got after months of ignoring players. And how they’ve done more than once.
How little intresting content they’ve provided. And how unbalanced their game is.

I know that only five weeks have passed. But looking at the popularity of other games make me sad.

I wish someone from GBX will look at this at and say something about all these wall of text