Jakob's Assassin Zer0 Questions

Howdy guys, as I mentioned in the other thread, I’m interested in getting this one going again!

I’ve read through this thread several times and as I’ve posted elsewhere I’m interested in exploring a Jakobs Allegiance build.

My build(s) (I’m always changing it and trying different things) is similar to what I see you guys doing except I have points in One with the Gun and nothing in Unforseen. I may play around some with that. I’m at work right now and can’t post my build, but I’m always open to suggestion. Especially from you guys.

I’ve not really committed fully to Jakobs allegiance but really just been playing with all Jakobs weapons(as well as allegiance relic and Jakobs COMs).
I’m really trying to ease my way into it, but starting to feel like I’d like to commit.

My first question is how would you guys suggest I proceed? Should I start a brand new character and bring him through NVHM, TVHM and UVHM? Or should I simply take an existing character and convert it? I really like playing the higher levels(which is ironic, my fear of UVHM is what brought me to these forums). Honestly, the latter sounds most appealing, but I’m curious as to the “proper” way to do it.

Are peak runs viable with this sort of build? From what I can gather you guys are at OP2-3 with these. I’m at OP2 right now and I actually like it. Some things are quite challenging, others aren’t terribly hard but it’s not a complete walk in the park either.

I still want to persue higher OP levels, but if this type of play style isn’t suited for it I’m fine with that as well.

I’ve only just VERY recently explored the idea of giving up my slagga and pimp and using only transfusions. That’s definitely something I need practice with. I will say that the Antagonist has also been fairly good at slagging but of course that’s not Jakobs.

Also had a question about snipers with the melee accessory. While farming for the Skullmasher I got a Ti’Kope that has exact same specs as the Siah Siah I’m currently using, same grip and I think same stock. The Jakobs weapon guide on the site here says to “avoid these like the plague”. Why would that be? I tested both together and they seem to perform on par with one another.

Anyways, wanted to get this topic going again and also ask some Q’s.

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Well I’m sure you know my opinion on the skill, so I won’t burden you with my propoganda. In short : it’s the icing on a shotgun cake.

What I do when I get a character to 72 is make a couple copies for future builds ( I’m on PC ). Then I carry on with the OP climb, leaving the clones to sit in their warm liquid goo. This is where my Jakobs Assassin came from : I threw away whatever non-Jakobs stuff his progenitor had and got him a few bits of starter gear.

Well - sort of. I easily unlocked OP1 and OP2 with it and tried unlocking OP3 but it was a slog. That said, it was with level 72 gear - so maybe an updated Maggie would have done the trick. It was my intention to halt him at OP2 ayways.

Honestly, you can be pretty conservative with slag at OP0-2. Most don’t need it - especially with a Muck to the head.

I would dearly love to know why. This accessory has absolutely no downsides. I’ve kept all my Tl’kopes if they’ve had good parts. Could you link that? I don’t know what Jakobs guide you’re refering to (other than Troubled’s).

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I do, and I actually used it all the way through UVHM based on your advice. Not sure when I stopped, but as you know your opinion isn’t universally shared. It’s something I’m going to play with some more.

Not on PC (hope to be in the future) but there is a way I can do something similar. I think I’ll do that with my current character. Plus I have a couple mules with Jakobs stuff that I can load his backpack with.

It is in fact Troubled’s guide. I like the guide, I was just confused by that. The actual statement:

" Fortunately it does not really suffer from a bad prefix but like with every other sniper rifle in existence the bayonet prefix should be avoided like the plague that it is."

From here:

Am I misinterpreting that?

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Well let’s page the man himself as he’s still around : @Troubled, you had mentioned your distaste for the blade accessory on Jakobs snipers. What’s your reasoning?

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So I did basically as @Jefe described and cloned my OP2 Zer0, then tossed all of his non-jakob gear off the edge of Sanctuary. I did keep the slag pimp in my backpack for emergencies.
I then went through my mules and found an assortment of purple rarity Jakobs weapons. Several shotguns, rifles and a couple more snipers. I still have a lot of room in my backpack.
Did a Dust run, got a hammer buster that is better than what I had. Got a Leg Killer COM that is worse than what I had. Did a run through Washburn that was very successful but lets face it, that’s a really easy map. But it gave me a chance to try out some of the weapons that I’ve had little experience with. I’m trying to ease my way into this.
It is kind of liberating to not have a slag gun on deck.
So far so good. Maybe a bit of a learning curve but I have no doubt that I’ll adapt.

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I’d take an existing one and convert it, but that’s up to you; I base this decision on the fact that I wouldn’t want to level up a new character from scratch, period. If I was going to, I might consider an allegiance run.

That’s entirely up to you - play it however you see fit to get what you want out of it. I wanted to see the game through the Jakobs’ (and all manufacturer) lens as Gearbox drafted it, for better or worse. I’ll quote the lines from some commercials from Jakobs (that show up on the radio sometimes) that I think of when playing Jakobs:

A Jakobs man ignores the mocking words of the ignorant. ‘Your gun’s too slow.’ they say. ‘Your accuracy ain’t nothin’ to write home about.’ Then the Jakobs man nods. Walks away. Decapitates him with a single shot.

Grandson, he said, there’s only one thing in this world more satisfying than the love of a fine woman or the taste of a hand rolled cigar, and that’s splitting a man’s head in two with a single bullet.

If it took more than one shot, you weren’t using a Jakobs.


I park at OP3 for other reasons, but I honestly don’t think I got much farther than this with my Jakobs Assassin before I broke allegiance just to get through the remaining levels. I go to the peak when it comes up on the dice, but it’s OP3 (and I still expect a difficult fight).

Because it’s not a Pimpernel? :stuck_out_tongue:
Seriously though, in my opinion it’s not bad, it’s just not the most optimal accessory (since most sniper rifles tend to be used at distance, where accuracy, recoil reduction, crit damage, and the like may be more useful than a blade that won’t get used).

My Jakobs Assassin is no stranger to melee, and (for example), I wouldn’t say no to a bladed Buffalo (as it’s used at closer range than most sniper rifles anyway, where I can be lazy and not swap weapons to get a melee buff). Still - for the simple act of swapping weapons (usually while in Decepti0n myself where there’s plenty of time for that), the Buffalo could have higher crit damage (for example) and be better for it. I think that’s the gist of that line.

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Did another run through Southpaw. Again, I made it through but had several close calls. A FFYL and last milisecond SW w/ Reeth. Rouf and his buddies pushed me back to nearly the halfway point of the map.

I did heed @Jefe suggestion that slag isn’t always necessary. This is mostly true but Reeth and Rouf really need slag. Again I ran out of grenades at the end. This time I got smart and deceptioned past Rouf and ran to the end of the map where are the ammo chests are.

It’s definitely a challenge (for me anyway) and forcing me to play differently so that’s good and I’m definitely up for the challenge.

I’ll try Bloodshot tonight, that should be fun.

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So I completely respec’d using your builds as guides. Unforseen is back! If I get the timing for everything right it’s awesomely effective. Especially ending with a blast from a quad or coach (@Jefe for inspiring that).

I swapped out my transfusions. I was using purple lobbed slags with 0.0 fuse and x6. Now using longbow with 0.7 fuse x7. Not a huge difference, but I do think they are doing better at both healing and slagging.

I have to re-think my tactics for farming Tinder. I usually start most my sessions with 1-5 quick runs at him. I get the job done, but without an Incendiary Lyuda and BoTA its considerably more cumbersome and time consuming. ( He did give me a nice purple callipeen with matching grip).

I did go through Bloodshot and it went very well. I had a botched Southpaw run and a decent one as well. I’ll leave the details of those for the WDYD thread.

Question: If I start the game at OP0 and do the Peak it will give me that “version” of the peak? I’d like to run OP0 and OP1 again with this build(with 72 weapons of course) since I started it at OP2.

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:smirk:

It’s probably obvious, but a shock Bone will increase its efficacy. Its damage will start to taper off sharply at around OP6, but is still impressive at OP8 if using a shock Bone.

I find longbows do a better job - don’t know why.

Yes it will.

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Yeah, but I’ve grown to really like this Allegiance relic…decisions…hmm…well I can switch to it when needed…RABIDS!! Man, throw a Twister(which I don’t have…yet) in the mix and that would be insane.

It’ll be a miracle if I ever get to OP6 much less OP8…hell I’d be happy getting to OP3. This Jakobs Zer0 is going to stay at OP2 for a while. I’m betting if I get proficient with this Allegiance build that my overall game is going to improve.

The transfusion trails have been more reliable, that’s for sure.

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Shock Zer0 is a thing. As a Jakobs character, I like a shock Leech as an allowance for his grenade slot (if I’m not sweating slag), since it doesn’t do a ton of damage (and would be rather un-Jakobs-like), but heals very nicely.

Not Jakobs exactly, but this is my favorite combo with Unf0rseen: drop a pile of Landscaper shot a bit away from an enemy and throw your hologram between the enemy and the pile, then immediately go into Decepti0n.

Work your way behind the enemy for Backstab, Execute the enemy to knock them back, where they will fly through your hologram to eat Unf0rseen, and land on the pile of Landscaper shot (which will rack up Rising Sh0t as it detonates). I don’t think I had Be Like Water in there… curious if it would buff at least the first Landscaper detonation. :thinking:

I mean, there are certainly more efficient ways to kill enemies, but this is way more fun.

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I myself prefer the Longbow flavour especially when used from distance to ping an enemy hiding behind cover and sometimes before using Execute to bridge the gap quickly if it makes them break cover, and grenades with a higher fuse time can also be used effectively.   It’s fun throwing in a grenade with a longer fuse and throwing Decepti0n then having the grenade do it’s job and slag the enemy whilst you are in Decepti0n and the taking your shot knowing you can get a one shot kill and remain undetected by all other enemies, very stealthy, although for almost instant slag and healing when up close the lower fuse time wins out for sure … maybe pack one of each just for the fun of it :smiley:

Cool, i myself see no rush or need to obtain higher OP lvls straight away unless you are already very comfy with this build, gear set and playstyle.   I think staying at a comfortable but still challenging lvl is a great idea, and you will know when it’s time to advance to a higher OP lvl and eventually at what point you find the most suitable and where you’d like to just be able to play and have fun :+1:

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I can also say from repeated experience, it’s really annoying when you’ve decided that a build is too powerful for 72 and start climbing the Peak - only to find myself at OP4 with a build that doesn’t work properly anymore.

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It depends on the character in question. Maya can run from level 1 to 72 without any issues in using Jakobs due to all her abilities and if you take the right talents. For Vault Hunters such as Zer0 it becomes harder due to their play style. It also depends on the build itself as well as some require end game gear not available anywhere else or is difficult to find. Not saying it is bad either way, just that for some Vault Hunters it is easier to simply convert as the learning curve is not as severe.

I was able get to OP6 with Maya, but that was with top tier Jakobs using my Peacekeeper build before having to deviate away from the build to get to OP8. The only two Vault Hunters I can think of that can do it without using any unofficial patches are Salvador and Zer0, and with Salvador at least it is not an all weapons Jakobs build. Zer0 is very difficult to run all Jakobs weaponry as he does not have the same life sustain that Maya has. I would come out and say that it is nigh impossible to do an all Jakobs weapon run through Peak but someone most likely did already, and the Vault Hunter I can seeing being able to do it is Zer0.

Once you beat the Peak however OP8 is not too dissimilar to base level 72 in regards to Jakobs. Just things take a bit longer to kill and they can kill you a bit faster. Once I beat the Peak on Maya I managed to get the same I gear I used previously to run the Peak and ran around OP8 without too many issues outside of the DLCS.

I recommend not using the Antagonist as if you are standing behind cover it will slag you 100% of the time it is triggered while also not always slagging when struck. It also leaves you vulnerable to melee attacks which, again, can trigger the shield at point blank range which will always slag you but not always your target. I personally prefer using the Blockade or some other type of robust shield. As far as not being Jakobs, the only Vault Hunter that can run an all Jakobs build in UVHM is Axton, though that is a kicking and screaming experience but is doable.

Simple: Scaling. Beyond TVHM melee becomes absolutely useless unless you are dedicating yourself on a Vault Hunter that can actually hurt the target you are smacking upside the face. While bayonets do not have any negative effects in how a firearm functions they also do not add anything and are overall inferior to almost all other attachments available to a firearm. In UVHM Jakobs requires you to squeeze the ever living snot out of them to get as much damage and efficiency as possible and having a melee attachment does a lot more harm than good with the Law being an exception.

That and a three foot long bayonet looks ridiculous on a sniper rifle.

I apologize for the late response. I rarely get on the forums anymore and have been largely inactive as far as Borderlands is concerned.

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I’ve done exactly this. Restricting myself to only Jakobs weapons means I have a lot more room in my backpack. This has allowed me to carry and play with a variety of same weapon. I have 3 different Hammer Busters right now all with different parts. I can test them all and pick the one that best suits me. Same deal with Strikers and Maggies.

I agree. I think if I concentrated solely on the Peak, I could progress at a much quicker rate, but that just doesn’t seem appealing right now. That said, I am able to hear the Peak faintly calling my name…so maybe the time is approaching.

I will admit, one thing that first attracted me to Jakobs weapons is their appearance. The purple rarity guns look…umm…majestic. That said, I don’t think that the bayonet looks that bad. But thank you for clarifying. Your Jakobs guide has been an invaluable resource. I’ve read it over several times.

Prior to committing to a Jakobs allegiance build I always had at least one Jakobs weapon in my loadout, usually more. In the short time I’ve been using this playstyle I found it to be great fun and I feel like I’m adapting to it pretty quickly.

I suspect this will be my “go-to” toon for some time to come.

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I shall hereinafter refer to this as “The Adabiviak Way”. :+1:

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That seems unusually… definite. I could have sworn you were rocking Maya in UVHM (and I do it with Zer0 now). Are you talking about the last half of the OP levels, or everything after level 50?

That’s how I started playing allegiance… I wanted to have each piece of red-texted gear in the game, and needed mules to do that. Once I started getting most of it, it was difficult to keep track of if I wanted a certain character to use a specific piece of gear (I had to remember who had what), so I organized it by manufacturer: one per mule. Then I thought, "What would it be like to play these mules with this restricted gear set? I could focus my playstyle and build around the particular gimmicks of each manufacturer… "). I found it pretty entertaining, set up some extra rules to enforce actually using each piece of gear (for better or worse), leveled up and rebuilt the mules, and I’ve been there ever since (plus the backpack space is nice).

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The Great Wall of Words has cometh.

You’re referring to using all Jakobs weaponry. Axton is the only Vault Hunter that can use all Jakobs weaponry AND the shield in UVHM without it being absurdly cumbersome.

While Maya can tot the Rough Rider, she has to be heavily invested in the Harmony tree and even then the player has to play very conservatively. While Maya has extremely good health regeneration doing so, she is not capable of surviving direct hits from rocket launchers like Axton can with Grit, nor can she take as much abuse as he can despite their healing capabilities being on completely different levels. However, Maya has to sacrifice quite a bit to be able to do such a thing, whereas with Axton you just move points around from shield and offensive talents to what my Leatherneck build is needed to be useful in UVHM.

That being said, Axton is only able to do regular UVHM–maybe as high as OP3-4–with that build and that is due to scaling. That is unless you use the Unofficial Community Patch, in which case the build is able to go toe-to-toe with pretty much everything at OP8 in taking as well as giving punishment.

With Jakobs when I decided to make my guides and tinker with the various Vault Hunters I wound up creating three criteria that generally have to be met for a Vault Hunter to be successful in using Jakobs pretty much everywhere without too much difficulty. The key exception being the DLCs which are thrown out the window, especially Hammerlock’s DLC which is Jakobs hell.

  1. Damage: Does the Vault Hunter offer buffs that are not overly complicated, do not hinder, and are useful to Jakobs? Can I get access to the talents from the get-go, or do I have to waste skill points to get to said talent? Does it affect all weapons or just a select few?

This point alone throws out Gaige, Krieg, and to a slightly less extent, Salvador from the get go. Both Gaige and Krieg have very anti-Jakobs talents that, while some of them are capable of buffing weapons to enormous levels of damage, have such detrimental side-effects or are so deep in an anti-precision tree they are not worth the effort. In the case of Salvador he sucks with pretty much everything Jakobs in a pure build but with the Deputy Salvador build he reigns supreme.

  1. Survival: How many cracks upside the head can I take before I fall? Can I regenerate health without compensating skill points? Do I need to use an item that is not Jakobs to heal myself? Am I going to be hunting healing hypos like a drug addict running around looking for his next hit every time my shield falls?

One of the major downsides to using Jakobs is for every Jakobs weapon you equip that is one less slot for a Moxxi weapon. With all four slots filled you are then forced to rely on a Vault Hunter’s own abilities to keep you in the game and this is where Zer0, who reigns supreme in the previous point, falls flat on his face. Maya only has to put a few skill points into Sweet Release to comfortably fight at UVHM and in the OP levels so long as the player does not bite off more they can chew. Axton in basic UVHM can take a tremendous amount of punishment and has respectable healing regeneration through Able and situational burst healing with the Legendary Pointman COM equipped. Salvador, on the other hand, has extremely lousy regeneration when not using Moxxi weapons, but has extremely ridiculous survival with a Grog Nozzle in hand.

  1. Flexibility: Can I slag without a slag weapon? Am I stuck with one type of weaponry or can I swap out weaponry as necessary? Am I good with just sniper rifles or with everything? Do I struggle against really tough enemies or large groups? Can I crowd control enemies? Can i adapt my fighting style or am I forced into a combat situation that is detrimental to myself and Jakobs?

Basically, is the Vault Hunter a one trick pony with Jakobs, or can they use all four categories Jakobs pop up in? For some Vault Hunters they might be lucky to be able to effectively use one category. Salvador for example is lousy with just about everything save for shotguns. Gaige is also not good with precision guns but is nasty with shotguns and especially so with the Twister. My Axton build likes high damaging Jakobs weapons but does poorly with weapons that have lower damage, higher critical numbers. Maya though reigns supreme in this category as each and every Jakobs weapon save a few–one being an hopeless cause–can be used effectively.

Being able to slag without having to heavily rely on a grenade mod or weapon opens up the possibility of not only negating the effects of the previous point by allowing a grenade to heal, but it also enables a Vault Hunter, such as Axton or Maya, to be able to use their slag talents along with their skills and thus allowing a smoother flow of combat without having to wait to pick up grenades or for their action skill to recharge. While Maya has the ability to have two forms of Slag, Axton has the option of allowing himself to slag enemies while in FFYL through grenades to increase the likely hood of a second wind.

These are the three overall points I looked when ranking the Vault Hunters with Maya being number one, Axton number two, and Zer0 and Salvador fighting for the third position due to their capabilities with their advantages and disadvantages arguing with one another. If you consider the Unofficial Community Patch however, Axton reigns supreme. That is of course if you do not consider raid boss fights, in which case Salvador pretty much takes the lead, but that is Salvador who is just one giant anomaly that gives me a headache in where I should stick him in the ranking.

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I’d have to strongly disagree with you there. I have an very solid OP4 build that uses only (and all) Jakobs in all all 4 slots - and doesn’t use the ROM nor the Twister. This uses the Rough Rider too. And only uses passive healing (no Moxxi / no transfusions). Slag comes from grenades (MMs).

@kbk160008 has a very similar OP8 build :

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Well I am impressed but that goes to show just how out of the loop I am anymore. I used to tinker with Salvador but gave up a while back due to lack of interest and frustration.

I forgot about Salvador and shotguns synchronizing very well due to their low magazine capacity. Never occurred to me to try it, but I was too busy trying to make Maggies work on him rather than using shotguns. The Deputy Salvador build should have been a sign, but I have been incredibly inactive with Borderlands 2 for the last two years.

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