January 10, 2020 Raid Report Card

Now that I’ve gotten comfortable farming the takedown on TVHM M4, I wanted to share my thoughts on the current build of the raid.

Here’s my last run of it.

I’ll try to keep this succinct, the raid isn’t new and people have talked about it a lot but I wanted to make a January update on it basically. I’ll do this bullet point style like I usually do for ease of reading and conveyance of ideas.

  • The difficulty is where it should be with a few exceptions. There’s a couple spots particularly the final boss where you are basically in a position of cheese it or die. Or like me run an OP build and move as fast as possible or else you’ll get disintegrated by a constant barrage of overpowered projectiles. It’s not supposed to be easy, but getting one shot across a map isn’t difficult either, it’s cheap.

  • I love the complete and utter lack of puzzles, and if they add some in I hope they’re not so ridiculously precise and demanding that one screw-up wipes everyone. Basically I hope they’re not too advanced; I LOVE in game matchmaking, but it’s best to keep things simple since there’s basically no barrier for entry. All in all its just run in, blow everything up, and collect the loot, just on a bigger scale.

  • The respawn system is bad. In that video I was playing solo until 3 others joined, then instead of joining me they spawned in as spectators and I had to restart. (Start of video) Yes I get it, we don’t want people abusing spawns. But during the raid for whatever reason if someone dies they can’t rejoin for however long (not sure, never died and had someone clear the raid in the same instance), and during the final boss if the party wipes your gruelingly brought back to relive the last encounter before the boss. How about better checkpoints?

  • The Loot is shockingly terrible. I walked out of that run with not a single raid legendary on the highest difficulty, and most legendaries weren’t anointed. The whole lot of them were mostly the “bad tier” of legendaries. I saved a couple but only for collection, not because they were particularly good. If you’re running the highest level difficulty, in the hardest content in the game, then the loot should be up to the same standard.

  • The music, level design, and art style of the raid is as always in this game, fantastic and well done. No complaints here, just compliments. I love how it looks and sounds and plays, with plenty of cover, and multiple levels give you a variety of combat options.

  • I guess I shouldn’t HAVE TO praise gearbox for this one (looking at you Destiny), but oh man is it wonderful to be able to play the raid as many times as you want, without being time gated loot wise. You can run Maliwan takedown all day long and keep getting the same chances at loot, and that’s nothing but a good thing. I already talked about loot, but not being time gated makes the sting of bad (raid) drop rates a lot less painful.

  • Matchmaking. It’s here. No need to go out of the game to find other players, which is always a good thing. And Gearbox was smart enough to make the raid simpler than its contemporaries, so we don’t need to voice chat or plan our attacks to succeed. That’s a double edged sword I know, but I much prefer it this way. After all, this isn’t a complicated MMORPG, it’s just a multiplayer looter shooter, we don’t need to follow the same raid template as any other game. There’s also little to no options in the matchmaking, with users only being able to select mayhem level, and just have to sit tight and hope it matches up a good team. A “server” browser in the style of borderlands 2 is desperately needed, and if they tuned the rewards like they should then there should be no shortage of players matchmaking for the raid.

  • Reiterating in difficulty: As far as the super elite 1% of the 1% go in terms of difficulty, if they want to make the game harder or make a harder raid, then I hope Gearbox keeps this in mind; this is a small percentage of the player population, and in no way reflects your entire playerbase or average borderlands 3 player including the ones who never beat it or just have fun and mess around on low mayhem levels. I’m all for giving people options, but for streamers or the .01% ultra elite there’s never going to be a difficulty hard enough, because they’re simply too skilled or dedicated or well funded gear wise by their respective fan bases and communities. So Gearbox please don’t lock amazing loot or anything too enticing behind a door that only they have a key to. The rest of us mortals like the difficulty to be much lower than your hardest of core. My solution to that would be if you want to take your play to that level, then Gearbox should design this near impossible challenge with rewards being exclusive skins or emotes, or leaderboards so everyone can see who’s on top.

I guess that’s about it. The raid obviously needs improvements, and I hope someone from Gearbox either implements those changes or at least keeps them in mind for the next eventual raid. So since this topic mentions a report card, I almost forgot to grade it.

As of right now, I’d give the raid a B-. It’s more user friendly than a destiny raid, less complicated or time consuming than an MMO raid, and has in game matchmaking and fairly decent challenge and rewards (READ: just plain ‘ole legendaries) on the whole.

The low raid exclusive loot drop rates, unnecessary spawn system, and surprisingly basic matchmaking (as nice as it is to have it), keep it from being truly great.


nice report, thanks for taking the time to write it up. I do think that their needs to be pearls locked behind raid completion though, but not only at the top difficulty. it should scale, and have a 100% chance to drop annointed pearls and legendaries at the highest difficulty. Idk, just rambling

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Thanks for the reply.

That’s fair enough, I personally don’t like difficulty-gating certain things, but at the current difficulty of the raid and balance of the game if they felt like adding in more exclusives I would be cool with that.

I just don’t want them going ham and gating a lot or most of the best gear behind the highest level of difficulty is all I was really trying to say.

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agree on all points, in my suggestion pearls would still drop at every difficulty level, just not as high of an annointed rate so everyone could at least have the rewards, but still have something to chase as well.


Wonderful idea. It’s a good way to keep everyone happy. The trick isn’t to appease one group or another.

The trick is to make a game compelling and rewarding enough that you keep the hardcore entertained, and you turn the casuals into hardcore players.

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yup, something destiny failed miserably to accomplish.

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Have you played the raid a lot? I recently took a break around the holidays, and came back and started really getting into Zane as opposed to Amara.

I’m wondering how everyone else is faring in regards to the drops.

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yeah, passed it once solo as fl4k. I have been waiting for gearbox to have it scale to your level to try again. it was a slog the first time, basically getting one shot all the time. had to run a stop gap just to survive. once adjusted it should be fun. drops stink though, I had several drop but they were all world drops, no m4 raid specific drops. :-1:

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Great raid review! This is fair and well written. How to @ Randy Pitchford and make him tell the dev team to do things…?

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Thanks bro. I have no idea, I wonder if any of the devs have played at beaten it or done it at TVMH M4?

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I don’t know. I really like the wide range of things you address in this write-up. Everything from how rare it probably is for people to complete it, much less solo it, to the amount of loot it drops for the difficulty are great things to address. Despite the frustrations with the scaling and loot, I also find it some of the most fun and engaging content in the game. It gives you a direction to go, you have a constant barrage and onslaught of enemies to face, and the placement of those enemies along with their movesets are very well balanced (minus hackhounds. THOSE CAN GO TO HECK!!!)



Where was I?.. Oh yeah… I also agree with the main problem in the Wotan fight being the incredible difficulty spike and overuse of health gating. I’ve never liked that, tho Im sure balancing that is hard in content where players might have 50k shields.

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Sigh, I really want to try and see if I can solo the M4 raid with my Iron Bear build, (most likely no, the meta for running the raid seems to be pretty narrow) but there is a big problem, My build is currently bugged and worse, I cannot find a class mod with the ideal stats I need to complete the build.

I am also really sure I would be kicked from any matchmaking attempt for running an irregular build. I remember what random people did to a soccer ball in Destiny and to those who did not have a certain rocket launcher…

I wish you luck then, so far the community has been ok on matchmaking, whenever a moze or Fl4k joins I haven’t seen any kicking.

But I know it’s out there. It’s also a nightmare farming specific stuff for the takedown, let alone the stuff in the raid.

If I played online, I’d invite you to play sometime but I really only play with my partner. Also, I’m on PS4. There is a good community on here I think. Maybe find a group in the lfg forums here?

I am actually on the PS4, but it is fine. Honestly my biggest gripe is not being able to finish my build. I would also like them to fix the current Iron Bear bugs. The missing fuel bar causes cooldown problems, and the 25 percent grenade anointment often does not function at all.


The damage on throw works but the IB damage spawn one is bugged and you have to reequip it between deployments.

If you’re doing a full uptime build, I’d imagine reequipping between fights isn’t as bad as it could be.

I believe the missing fuel bar is just a visual bug and that IB’s SSB cooldown issue is related to something else. I’ll find the link to the thread discussing it.

For me it works very consistently. I’m not sure what the difference is but I’ve seen a lot of people say it doesn’t work but it always does on my end. Wonder if it’s another of those PC vs PS4 things.

This is the one I’m talking about. I don’t have to do that it just always works for me.


Same for me. Maybe it depends on the nade? Would be interesting to test…orbits the dreaded “not host” bug where so many of them seem to exist …Im always host so I never experience them.

Edit: post reply above answers this

I don’t know where the SSB thread is. But maybe I am just blind. There was a thread like 2 hours ago talking about that but tho and they dissics it there.

For me it will work fully the first time I pull out Iron Bear, sometimes works on the second time, and then it stops. I would say the Ps4 is unloved, but from what I understand Xbone users have it the worst out of all the platforms.