Just my thoughts on some skill changes for moze

Just like title says I have thoughts on skill changes for moze these arent iron bear related because I could write like a 20 page essay on how I’d change bear lol.

Drowning in brass- honestly just eliminate the fire rate penalty it’s kinda dumb to have that when all the other VH have crazy dmg boosting kill skills with no negative

Torgue cross P.(splash radius increase chance skill) it should be either changed or added that you deal double the splash damage and the chance should be 20-30% tbh.

Selfish vengeance- should cap at 25%and stack twice while keeping the same duration and hp penalty. This would also make the reload speed annointment better in a way since it’s her worst one.

Stoke the embers- make it all elemental damage but reduce it to 20% to compensate

Click click- should be more damage the more ammo your weapon has in it tbh since it’s actually easier for her to constantly have ammo on ALOT of builds if needed nerf the damage a bit if it becomes too strong that way.

Means of destruction- 15%ammo 10%grenade at max

Why cant I carry all these gerenades- increase grenade damage by 30% at max as well as more grenade carry

Experimental munitions- 15- 20%

Cloud of lead- not sure how much it should be increased if at all but if u get a mod that goes past 5/5 it should be more than what it is maybe.

Anyway these are opinions and since there is no real way to boost iron bear and moze on equal levels without making some big sacrifice I think this is like a solid start. Some things i can easily see not being needed but i would love demolition woman tree changes since it hardcore lacks damage and is only truly used cuz vampyr tbh

Drowning in Brass just makes sense though. Although minuscule, the lower fire rate helps out bottomless mags.

As for Stoke the Embers, i think it works as is. She has what 5 skills that deals in Incendiary damage.

Vladof Ingenuity, Force Feedback, Scrappy, and most of Iron Bears augments need some love.


Just curious how many grenades are enough to carry lol? If you get a +5 grenade on your mod, you’re riding 16-18 already, not to mention the grenade Regen she has and the fact grenades drop all the time to restock, especially on bosses. On
Agonizer alone I throw 3 and unload a full magazine, rinse repeat, until it’s dead. I don’t run out and my health Regen from vampyre keeps my health full.

We all know grenades are the best in all aspects of Moze, but she already looks like a Christmas Tree lol :laughing:

Imagine putting cloud of lead and experimental munitions on here but not behind the iron curtain.

You could boost explosive damage over 300% with Krieg, although very hard to do when notbin Buzz Axa Rampage. You could boost Axtons grenade damage over 150% nearly all the time. If Moze is the explosives VH of BL3, she needs some MASSIVE bluffs imo. If they would just FIX Vampyr to work with all sources of splash damage and give her the needed damage for endgame, she would be my dream come true.

I’m not saying she isnt capable of some nice hits, but it takes soooooo much more effort than Zane atm

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Didnt put skills in here that I had no idea for changes sry

I had agree the only way she truly does explosive damage is via a legendary com and that’s kinda sad if that’s the only reason they wont let demolition woman deal real splash damage

The problem is it’s just too much incin damage and hurts her because how weak she is against robots and such it’s so and they made a com to give her corrosive damage but the cons bonus damage is extremly weak

It’s not really the carrying grenades thing is that she should deal alot more damage with them than someone like amara who honestly deals the most damage with alot of grenades as long as they have a element on it

What’s also funny when u think about it amara does more splash damage than moze someone with a supposed splash tree and com

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Right?! That’s outright BS if you ask me, I get they always make the siren top tier but Moze is supposed to be the splash girl lol

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Splash damage is odd. It’s great for groups of enemies, but you don’t often get enough together to make it that effective. If you boost it too high, you can delete yourself pretty quick though. Lol

That 100%depends on what gun or grenade you are using for splash damage. It’s pretty hard to kill yourself with something like a kybs worth imo or like a DUC splash size in this game is funny because its all just so tiny and enemies dint group up that close tbh. It’s why torgue cross promotion skill would be amazing if it also boosted splash damage or if chaining Tesla effects counted as splash damage like they used to. The nukem might be the only gun with enough splash to really ■■■■ things up lol

Yup, on sanctuary. Lol

Is it confirmed that Amara deals the most damage with grenades?

Amara’s specific buff for splash is 20% with 5 points in Arms Deal. Moze’s grenades can crit and I assume her incendiary damage is added to grenade splash damage as well. And like you said, Amara can only do it with elemental types. The only other damage boost to grenades she has through skills is Tempest, but Sirens have always had elemental damage specializations afaik.

I’m all for buffing Moze for the sake of widening her options and making an even playing field. But I feel like this kind of comparison makes it sound like you’re more interested in just oneupping another character. It’s like saying Rushin’ Offensive should go to Zane instead of Moze (which is silly, whoever designed Moze made it her skill for a reason).

I’m stuck on public transport and have nothing better to do. So here’s the Amara vs Moze grenade comparison

There’s a ton of happy day scenarios included here to give both characters peak damage. I’m also not familiar with lvl 53 numbers for the coms/artifacts so those aren’t likely to be accurate. I underestimated them, if they’re higher it sways the balance towards Moze.

What is required to reach this level?

  • Both need to be actively firing a gun at 9 rounds a second and have killed a badass in the last minute.
  • Both have ideally anointed weapons and grenade with it active.
  • coms and artifacts need grenade and splash/aoe.
  • I’ve given both classes their usual class mod, Amara without Driver I wouldn’t give the benefit of an EP to so she suffers a lack of beneficial skill boosts. Moze technically gets more from Green Monster and Mind Sweeper than she does from Blast Master here. However both are more erratic to calculate.
  • Moze needs to be using a fire nade and attacking a target hit by Target Softening. Pull the Holy Pin also needs to Trigger.
  • Amara needs to be literal point blank with the target. Be using a shock nade and be attacking a target hit with Laid Bare.

So under that hefty weight of assumptions Amara edges it by a whisker.

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Holy crap, that’s a nicely detailed comparison. :astonished: I don’t really have a head for hard numbers in this game so I appreciate the explanation. Nice work!

One change to her skills I would add would be a 15% movement speed buff to Rushin Offensive. She literally has zero movement speed buffs in any of her skill trees, while other VHs have multiple ones.


Yeah, RO should definitely give some kind of other bonus. Someone on reddit was comparing it to Wilhelm’s Shock Absorbers skill and it’s weird how little Moze gets from it in comparison.

Sadly that shouldnt even be by a hair it should be moze on a significant level… shes the grenade splash bitch like… that sucks imo

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