Just some suggestions to make Rath a more viable assassin

This is just some things that I’ve got in mind to make him more of an Assassin than a CC kill securer, I know people think he’s in a good place but I just want him to be a more viable option than the standard picks like Melka, Deande, Pendles and Phoebe which they all bring something to the table that Rath can’t, making them the better option, because in reality most Assassin and Melee overshadow him because well either they have a better kit, more survivalbility or better specs.

So I just want to give some suggestions on how to make him more of an Agile Assassin he’s supposed to be, of course everyone can come, give their opinion, give a suggestion or even discuss why and why not.

1: Actually make him agile:

A. This one I think is one of the most important things that I want to talk about, which is the reason why I even mentioned Melka on this post, Melka and Rath literally have the same roles, they’re both Agile and they’re both Assassins yet Melka blows Rath away in both terms, sure Melka has lower health but that’s it, Melka’s mobility is insane when comparing it with Rath and that’s without any helix options, Melka only has two mobility helix choices with the best one being Air Stall, nobody in this forum can deny that Melka overshadows Rath when it comes to mobility and survivalbility as she being Eldrid, the innate Health Regen gives her a much better way to heal than lifesteal, Rath has three mobility helix choices where has one of them I don’t know why its even a thing and the other two just aren’t more viable than their counterparts; Terror from Above, this helix choice ( as well as Vaulting Hunter ) IMO shouldn’t even be a helix choice and just be something Rath ( and Thorn ) should innately have as Its good and shouldn’t be a choice, I suggest to give him the double jump entirely and give him another helix choice in its place; Crimson Fastness, this one falls in the “but the other choices are better” syndrome as it’s no really that viable compared to a 3 sec Silence, maybe change the way it works so that instead of just going forward it goes where he’s moving towards, this way at least it will be better as it would be use to get cover quickly or even to surprise smash the enemy team; Evasive Maneuvers, this one I wouldn’t have a problem with it if it wasn’t for the 6 secs, In this time were this game is heavily CC oriented 6 secs isn’t enough to escape, so maybe just get rid of the 6 secs so it stays as long as you don’t have shields or it isn’t recharging but tone it down to 9 - 12% and also giving it sprint speed as it would make it more viable and can make him less one dimensional so you can play him a different way than to just go for the damage choice.

B.Another thing That I would like to compare him to Melka is that he doesn’t have a sprint quick melee which is something that I think he really needs, unlike the other melee characters he doesn’t really have a way to chase down weakened targets, sure you have both of his abilities but most of time they’re on CD because of the old smash into blades combo, therefore most of the time if you don’t have any form of CC, early game they will most of the time get away, so I suggest in giving him a sprint quick melee that looks like Deande’s Burst Dash but with him slasing people like Zantesuken but instead of pushing them he actually goes through them, making it a good hit and run quick melee as you can body block weakened enemies and can be used to escape dog piles from the enemy team as the moment he gets cornered your dead, hell maybe change Terror from Above and give him this for a helix choice and give it a 3 secs cooldown, that for sure will be a good trade off and put an emphasis on whether you go swordsman or assassin.

2:Buff his passive ability:

A: Like im not even joking when I say that all the other Jennerit have way better lifesteal than him AND also have a really good passive and again overshadowing him in basically everything now, Ambra has A LOT of healing and lifesteal, Attikus Hedronic Regeneration, Hedronic Siphoning and Invigorating Pounce combo all link to together so just that completely wrecks any type of lifesteal Rath could ever have, Caldarius has his 15% lifesteal on his blade plus now it wounds, this is insane against Eldrids and healers ( looking at you Miko ) and has a form of lifesteal with his Legendary gear which you can pop up on a minion wave and boom full heatlh and I don’t even want to bring Deande into this because she literally is a THE best Assassin in the game, for someone who’s passive is literally what the Jennerit are known for, his passive is extremly underwhelming so I suggest to buff his lifesteal a lot, I’m talking a 15% buff on both melee and skills not counting his Legendary gear because there is nothing that he can do by himself in a lane which happens a lot BTW.

B: Or give him an extra effect on his passive like he gains 5 stacks of 2% Attack dmg per melee hit on enemies and gives the enemies a -15% reduced damage for 8 secs to make him better at clearing waves early game so he doesn’t die by them and giving him an edge over other melee characters.

C: Also Swordsman’s Salve… Ugh why is this a choice? I suggest changing is completely with a new Helix upgrade called “Lingering Flesh”, what this does is when enemies get hit by his melee combo’s finishing spin, enemies get drained of their health while healing him, up to 350 damage and healing over 3 secs but doesn’t go through shields making him better at 1v1 characters.

And Lastly…

3:Dreadwind oh Dreadwind:

A:These are pretty much straightforward suggestions, Either put this back to where it was before the damage and duration nerf or at least shorten it’s cooldown from 75 to either 50 or 60, literally the worst Ult in the game right now because I actually thought Kelvin’s Ult was the worst, boy how wrong have I been, Dreadwind can only kill like very super weakened low health characters, characters you unload your entire kit on leaving you defenseless, characters with no CC or escapes or New players, which means only two or three kill if lucky, while you have Orendi’s Pillarstorm that literally give people Pentakills, Boldur’s Runes of Power which make him God incarnate, Deande’s Blink Storm which literally guarantees a kill on anything other than a Tank and ISIC literally being a Tank, I think at this point where the game is we can afford this.

These are some of the suggestions I could think of in 6:00 in the morning, If you have a different opinion, ideas, suggestions, thoughts, memes, whatever post them down and let’s see what else we can come up with, If Rath isn’t your guy then why not start a post on other characters as well to see the opinion of the masses.

The difference is Rath has huge hitboxes, triple the cc, a debatably better ult, strong aoes that extend forward so he doesn’t have to, and has much higher sprint speed than Mell.

It’s debatably more viable than the alternative, I understand you not using it but I don’t think it needs changed. Sale for Vaulting Hunter.
I don’t know enough about the character in practice to confidently participate further unfortunately

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You are underestimating the mobility of our favorite Keeper. [quote=“akumakuro4004, post:1, topic:1551501”]
Terror from Above, this helix choice ( as well as Vaulting Hunter ) IMO shouldn’t even be a helix choice and just be something Rath ( and Thorn ) should innately have
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I can wait until level three for my double jump, it’s not that far into a game. Spin to win is nearly useless so I don’t even feel like I’m giving up anything for it. [quote=“akumakuro4004, post:1, topic:1551501”]
the innate Health Regen gives her a much better way to heal than lifesteal
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No, just no. 7 points of health regen is nothing. True that Rath has to wait until level five to get decent life steal but it’s still better than the passive 7 points. Rath can hit multiple enemies to enhance the effects of life steal as well, making waves of minions potential burst heals.

Crimson Fastness falls into the category of “don’t take it because it’s a debuff to your skill” And no matter what they do to improve it I would never take it in PvP as chain CC is one of the things that makes Rath, Rath. I do take it in PvE however because it looks badass as hell.[quote=“akumakuro4004, post:1, topic:1551501”]
Evasive Maneuvers, this one I wouldn’t have a problem with it if it wasn’t for the 6 secs, In this time were this game is heavily CC oriented 6 secs isn’t enough to escape, so maybe just get rid of the 6 secs so it stays as long as you don’t have shields or it isn’t recharging but tone it down to 9 - 12% and also giving it sprint speed as it would make it more viable and can make him less one dimensional so you can play him a different way than to just go for the damage choice.
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I disagree with all of this and I feel that your change would be a detrimental nerf to how I play Rath. 6 seconds of increased movement speed is more than enough time to escape or secure a kill. And with how fast he’s going slows won’t matter. @Slif_One and @Ginger_Greninja can testify to seeing me or other Rath’s run past enemy accelerators as if we weren’t even slowed. And as far as other CC goes, 6 seconds is longer than even the infamous Toby double hug stun, Silence and knock up have no real effect on it. The trick is to maximize on mobility with gear. With how high Rath’s default sprint speed is one movement speed and one sprint speed gear will put you just under a cloaked Pendles in terms of sprinting, and that’s before evasive maneuvers procs.

Mellka needs her sliding kick because she has one of, if not the lowest sprint speed in the game whereas Rath has one of the highest. A Mellka main and I switched characters during a game for lolz and she was amazed by how fast she was going just by sprinting when she was playing Rath. [quote=“akumakuro4004, post:1, topic:1551501”]
as the moment he gets cornered your dead
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If I get cornered I use Catalytic Smash to knock up my enemies and run under them the get out. If Smash is on cooldown then I just jump over their heads and run away.

In general I don’t think he needs a running off hand melee. I do just fine with his high sprint speed as it is.

Deande does I won’t argue that and when I learned it I was upset. Ambra not so much, most of her healing comes in tandem to sunspots which can be destroyed, Attikus gives up one of his best damage increases for one of his life steal options, 15% on hedronic arc is next to nothing unless you are hitting multiple battleborn and a wave of minions with it, and the lasst is dependent on one skill with a massive cooldown that is used more often then not to escape rather than initiate. Caldarius… no. Just no, all kinds of no. You give up his best mobility helix for the crappy 15% on his crappy melee and his legendary is trash.

This seems excessive. I agree that his life steal should be buffed but a default 23% on melee and 25% on skills is too much. [quote=“akumakuro4004, post:1, topic:1551501”]
there is nothing that he can do by himself in a lane
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He’s an assassin, not a tank or brawler. He shouldn’t be in the lane by himself. [quote=“akumakuro4004, post:1, topic:1551501”]
which happens a lot BTW.
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That’s a matter of the team you play with and has nothing to do with Rath.[quote=“akumakuro4004, post:1, topic:1551501”]
Also Swordsman’s Salve… Ugh why is this a choice? I suggest changing is completely with a new Helix upgrade called “Lingering Flesh”, what this does is when enemies get hit by his melee combo’s finishing spin, enemies get drained of their health while healing him, up to 350 damage and healing over 3 secs but doesn’t go through shields making him better at 1v1 characters.
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350 over 3 seconds equates to 116 damage per second. That is almost as much a pre-nerf Oscar Mike napalm field on his melee. That’s too much. And swordsman’s salve is not a bad choice. It’s actually what I started using since the Dreadwind nerf and I get work done with it.

(Thank you for directing me here @epicender584, but I’m already on top of it. Got your notification right in the middle of typing this. I appreciate it though.)

Dreadwind is still a great ult. My opinion is that if they do change something about it it would need to be this, revert a single nerf that was made to it. Anyone of them and I’ll be happy about it. Preferably the DPS or the cooldown. Couldn’t care less about the duration nerf. Nothing in the game should be able to 100-0 someone that isn’t a super squishy character. Right now the only thing that can do that is Hawkeye and we all know how broken that is. Dreadwind can still get stuff done, I mean look at this video:

Of the 4 characters I say that I main in this game, I stopped playing 3 of them because of them getting over buffed. If Rath gets over buffed as well then I don’t think I’ll have a reason to play this game anymore.

EDIT: Note that in the video I did not go for the increased damage at level ten, I went for the movement speed and I don’t run any skill damage gear. I took out the majority of that Shayne’s health with Dreadwind’s base level ten damage. Also Evasive maneuver’s did not proc since my shield didn’t fully recharge before going down, that chase and escape was purely based on two pieces of gear and his high sprint speed.

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Fixed that for you buddy.

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She doesn’t even sprint, she just walks faster. Everyone else feels like they have a second sprint Mellka hasn’t unlocked

Haha, I try

I try to be very vague in debates so I’m never wrong, this is what I would’ve said instead lol. Thanks

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I understand and as you said you don’t play Rath that much (at least not yet, I’ll make a Rath main out of you eventually) but take my word for it, spin to win is just not worth it. It’s like Mellka’s Frag Canister come to think of it.

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Yeah, spin to win seems lackluster. But Frag canister is strictly in the category of

It removes the ability to long range canister and for me makes wave clear more difficult. Not even factoring in how awesome the other choice is

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Please don’t ever take Caldarius’ life steal over lateral movement or use his legendary unless you want to handicap yourself. They’re both trash. At least the other Jennerit get decent life steal.

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How do you quote again?

Highlight the text and a prompt will come up to quote said text.

How does frag canister make wave clear worst, doesent it get batter wave clear due to wider area

Her regular canister already tags entire minion waves and Air Stall is just too good to pass up.

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Oh thanks for explaining

If you’re on mobile the orange box that appears around your text box needs to still be there. Tap something else and it will disappear, but if it’s active and you highlight it’ll work.

What lol said, but also that you have to do it closer up while I’m used to waveclearing from a distance after Spike. She only has one ranged attack (ignoring ult) after the accuracy nerf, so you can’t strip yourself of that for any reason

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Ok while the accuracy is bad, that is kinda an overexaggeration saying she has only one ranged attack

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With her stormtrooper accuracy and horrific fall off damage it isn’t an exaggeration to say it’s her only reliable ranged attack.

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Okay yeah, Blaine adding reliable makes it better

I’m not really underestimating, I do know he has one of the fastest sprint in the game, I just think it’s not enough to what the other Battleborn can bring as his hitbox makes him a bit susceptible to ranged attacks and a lot of the CC in the game.

For me It’s not really about giving something up or anything, I just think they both should have this innately.

As I’ve seen, literally all good Melka player have Drained Regrowth Serum at the start of the match, making it a must have thing as a Melka, I don’t know about you but 21 points per sec anytime is way better than lifesteal that doesn’t go through shields and you have to be hitting something to heal which is why I see more Raths with health regen since this stat gut buffed.

This I agree with but which is why I would want GBX to change it or buff it some way to at least be more viable at first glance, still silence is way better.

Hmm I guess I can take your word for it, I really don’t use it much to gauge it so im just comparing it to Deande’s escape which is far better than it and she doesn’t have to give up damage on it ( Well depending on what you want on lvl 6 as all options are good and it really depends on what your playstyle is ) I think it’s good but not enough for me to not go for the damage boost at least to how I play, maybe if they changed it’s position to where Brutal Blade is would make it a more enticing choice for me.

The sprint quick melee is really just a guilty pleasure of mine because for me that would make him even more fun to play and it’s not like I’m asking for a Deande sprint quick melee, that thing is busted.

Including you and I, I can count with my fingers how many Good Rath players there are in this game ( at least with the ones i’ve played against ) most of the time with how good CSmash is, you either using it to initiate a fight, kill or secure a kill, help allies or disrupt the enemy, you’ll be likely to have this on CD, not saying that is not possible because I do this too but when you do this, early game or if you didn’t pick Evasive Maneuvers you have no other way to escape other than to rely on his speed, and in this time you’ll still be in their line of sight compared to the other characters and you can still get killed way more easier than the others, CSmash is really just an out to melee characters and bodyblocking (seldom times), ranged can still hit you and you can still be hit with CC or hawkeyed, there are also characters where you can’t simply jump over even with Terror From Above, I also think he’s fine with his high sprint but that’s just it, he’s just fine to the rest who are exceptional, no matter if you CSmash you don’t get out of sight and you stil can potentially get stuck therefore going through enemies with an sprint quick melee would be nice on him as i would make him exceptional at escaping and chasing kills.

What I mostly wanted to touch on this isn’t that you should or shouldn’t go for the lifesteal as to compare the rest of the Jennerit % of Lifesteal to Rath’s lifesteal, the maximum Rath can go with with lvl 5 choices and Legendary gear is either 30%/18%, 40%/0% and 20%/21% ( Or is it 40%/18%, 50%/0% and 20%/31%? If is the latter then I guess this argument is pointless so I don’t know now that i’m looking at it ) It’s more about how easy and similar their lifesteal can fair against someone who’s passive is all about lifesteal.

Maybe too excessive now that I don’t know if the lvl 5 choices add lifesteal or take it from 10% to 20%.

You’re right yet most of the time I’m either getting my kills stolen or not being able to fend off a wave at low levels because i’m either being pummeled by minions or Battlebornes and I have to depend on buildables to level up, and also I play with most of you guys from the forums, Also Kleese and Montana makes leveling up harder.

I have to say I was writing this at 6 am with no sleep and I was using Ghalt and Whiskey as reference, maybe the the damage was to high, maybe 225 over 3 secs or something else like getting a % of health back depending on your max health, minor enemies give 8% and major enemies give 15% that would be a way better option than SSalve just the thought of losing lifesteal on my kit makes it unappealing to me.

Oh no at lvl 10 dreadwind’s base lvl 10 damage is good, It’s at lvl 5 where I have a problem with, at lvl 7 and 8 It already scales to do decent damage but at lvl 5 it just doesn’t feel like an Ult, I know that when the next big patch comes they at least have to fix one thing on it, preferably I hope the damage and/or cooldown. I also go for movement speed as I can bodyblock characters from escaping.

Sorry this reply is big and took a while had to go to sleep.

Please don’t contradict yourself like this :v:

Waaaaaaaa? How do you know this? What else do you know? I need the infooooooooooo please

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It’s not really a contradiction, constant healing whether 7 or 21 IMO is better than lifestealing in the long run.

I don’t know if this is sarcastic or not but please at least with me refrain from phrasing it this way because as a passive person I can’t tell if you’re being serious or not @epicender584.

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