Kelvin was once mighty... now, not so much

I have to say that I’m really quite disappointed in the fact Kelvin got his stun nerfed. To me, his stun was the main reason why he worked so much. That I could stun people and let others finish the enemy off. Kelvin relies on close quarter combat to work, and has no range, except the stun. Two seconds, while small, made a world of difference and now it has been reduced by a second, there really isn’t any point for it.

Which is where I begin to question what the point in it is now that it has been tweaked. Kelvin still has his chomp, but his stun was really good and it worked. I would be happy for any tweak, but there wasn’t anything given to him - his wall is still seven seconds long , which I believe is too short in my opinion.

I hope he is given a buff in the near future because he’s a great character in need for some love. I just think the decrease in stun might make him a little TOO disadvantaged.

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I will never play with Kelvin I mean I sucked with him before the nerf…but I literally have no idea how to use him effectively…

People tell me to farm minions for the health with bite but sometimes my bite does not finish the minions off…I kinda wish the minions had health bars but maybe that would cause framerate issues…I dunno

Im not hating on Kelvin I just suck with him…ive seen Kelvins wreck pre nerf so I know its just me

Kelvin is much more than a stun-bot. If there were such a thing as a “main ability”, it would be Chomp, not sublimate.

To put it another way, overreact much?

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I’m just passionate about the character, but you are correct that it was a tad over-reacted.

You’re also right about his chomp (which I love), I just fear he’s a little too disadvantaged. It’s a small thing, but it mattered.

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I don’t agree with the stun change I do agree with the slower sublimate speed though people would pick kelvin just to group stun an enemy team

Here’s the thing. I think the issue with sublimate was a combination of invulnerability, speed, stun length, and availability (multiple ways to reduce the cooldown to get it fairly low).

I think making a change of some kind was warranted. Did they make the right one? I don’t know. But while I haven’t tried it, it should still be one of the best escapes in the game, just a little tougher to use offensively, which I think is ok. You will note that stuns on several characters received duration decreases.

The Deep Dive even explained Kelv was supposed to be a Supportive, team-centric Tank from the start; someone who’s going to roll with the bulk of the team, using his stuns to support his team while soaking up damage. That’s what shaped his personality; he’s a chill guy, who just wants everyone to have a good time. He’s not an in-your-face personality because he prefers to let his team have the glory. He’s a cool guy who you want to be around.

Or maybe his personality was just made for the ice puns, IDK.

This is the problem with the nerf; you can’t just cripple his main support tool when the rest of his kit isn’t strong enough on its own- His damage is only barely above Shayne, but has a much harder time initiating, and his tanking isn’t good enough. Instead of being an asset to a coordinated team, he’s putting out brief stuns and has to actively try to steal kills from his team just to get his tanking on par with a Level 4 Boldur.

I’m biased as hell on this one, I’m not gonna lie- Kelv was my go-to melee since the 2nd beta, and my previous main. It also doesn’t help that my only game with him post-nerf was 4v5, us down a player and them with a 4-person lv100 premade all running damage dealers with Wound. I knew I was going to be upset from the start with a Kelv nerf, but with what competitive teams could do with his stun it’s obvious it had to be nerfed.

Ambra went from overpowered to bottom 5 in this game because when her damage was nerfed, her zone control and healing weren’t strong enough to make up for losing the core of her kit. Now that Kelv’s CC was shot in the foot, his tanking and damage output aren’t strong enough to make him a threat on their own. Could we be overreacting? Sure, but there’s no doubt there’s a discussion to have here.

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I see what you did there!
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The only thing I’m upset about is his Sublimate movement speed nerf. It was his only decent escape method.

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What bothers me about Kelvin is that Sublimate is both his only real offensive and defensive ability. Take that away from him, or nerf it too hard and you are all but neutering Kelvin.
There were already so many things that can take him out of Sublimate that he can be rendered useless in a match against the wrong/right characters as it is.
I played in a match the other day against a Rath, Galiliea, and Alani, and could literally do nothing as Kelvin. Rath’s stun, Galilea’s shield, Galileas’s silence, Alani’s bubble, all take Kelvin out of Sublimate. Between the 3 of them I was dead as soon as any of them saw me.
Without Sublimate he can neither get into attack position/set up attacks, or escape from combat.

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Came here to say exactly what you said. For me the stun nerf isn’t so bad cause I usually finish off my opponent with chomp in one second, but in early game I always save my sublimate to escape. Now it’s harder cause I barely reach a safe spot and anyone with a ranged attack can finish me off before I get there.

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Sublimate is way more than a stun though. And even a 1 second stun can interrupt a whole lot of people. Also, makes the slow-icy field more attractive. IMO the slow trail should be a 60% slow not 30% but only movespeed not attack speed slow.

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It’s honestly so hard to describe Kelvin’s personality without making ice puns that I’m 90% sure it was intentional from Gearbox. And honestly, hats off to them :smile:

It is more than a stun. It’s his initiating tool and his escape tool. It’s his support option to help his team. It’s what makes him what he is, and I don’t think any other element in his arsenal is currently strong enough to make up for crippling it to this extent it.

Knowing what competitive players could do by chaining stuns, it was expected. The problem is, those characters have tools that keep them great without the CC. ISIC’s stun got nerfed, but he’s still a great tank and one of the best damage dealers in the game. Alani’s stun got nerfed, but she’s still arguably the best burst healer in the roster, and she even got a damage buff to compensate. ISIC’s fine because he still has damage & tanking, Alani’s fine because of her healing & damage, Kelvin not so much. His waveclear isn’t much better than most melees, his damage is average, and his tanking isn’t strong enough to become the new cornerstone of his character, especially with Wound being so prevalent now.

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My only problem with kelvin was he could use sublimate to stun 3-4 people then escape with ease

Kelvin isn’t a tank. It would have been nice if they had done something to compensate for this loss as he is supposed to be a controller and this was his principle means of control. It might have been cool to see some sort of effect added if you end sublimate early.

Well just a bit of info here, Kelvin’s chomp is a one hit kill on all small minions. So the tiny minion bots are Kelvins feeding grounds. Early on its kind of useless to try and feed off the strikers or shepherds (if they ever come back to incursions).

I haven’t played Kelvin since the update because I’m worried he wont feel the same. Yes in the right hands he could help an entire team rule whatever area he decided to stun through, but the same can be said of other characters, like Galilea and her desecrate, ISIC and his ult (Even with his nerf he can still hold his ground for 40 seconds), Kleese and his rifts (with his health buff he’s even more of a challenge in the right hands). I know there’s more but I dont feel like dragging on about it. I’ve seen how bad a 1 sec stun is on ISIC, and all he has time to do know it phase through you and the stuns over.

Before this update I never even had time (if I used all of the sublimate time) to get in stun and turn around to attack. With a 1 sec stun and nothing to back it up, he’s pretty much useless without a very well coordinated team. So maybe they did fix him for competitions, but they kind of ruined him for everyone else. With better CCer’s out there with better kits, I feel as if he’s fallen off his pedestal and down past where Ambra was before this update.

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I just wanted him to be a bit slower in sublimate but the stun nerf was pretty stupid

Overall this nerf, along w/ ISICs to the CC, seem like a sacrifice of the individual for the whole herd. I can tell you that I feel much better being hit by Kelvin’s sublimate now than I did before. I don’t get that instant sinking feeling. Most stuns were toned down, and I think it makes for overall better play.

That said, since the nerf I now only use the helix that changes stun to ice field, and I’ve been using slow food. I feel like the CC has wet noodle effectiveness, as 99% of the PUGs I’m in simply don’t take advantage of stuns (and frankly rarely did even when it was 2 seconds long). Alani’s bubble at least has a giant “shoot this” effect that draws the eye of the masses.

Group slow for 3 seconds, while not as strong as Phoebe, can be stretched over a large area. Couple that w/ his first helix that makes his groundpound slow in AOE, I dont have any need for Boots Brute.

I don’t know about you, but I panic when I’m in slow. I feel the paintrain coming my way, regardless of the situation. Give it a whirl. The nerf in effect made the slow a more viable choice.

Edit: not sure how I feel about the speed nerf.

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That’s definitely a good way to look at it. Between the price drops and the CC nerfs for faster gameplay, Battleborn is definitely going to have more mainstream appeal, which is really helping the PC playerbase already. I just feel they overestimated how strong the rest of his kit was without Sublimate; Hell, they respected Alani’s Geyser so much they risked the shitstorm of rebuffing her damage to justify nerfing it, meanwhile Kelvin still has Permafrost shields that barely block 1/10th the magazine of most ranged characters in this game.

I like the group-slow thing, but if the plan was to make Icemaker the new meta, I don’t understand nerfing the movement speed by so much. Most people saw Swelling Wind’s speed as more of a ‘Quality of Life’ thing than a core helix & mainly just took it to keep the stun, so nerfing his base movement and making Swelling Wind actually important seems counterintuitive.

Might be cool to see Icemaker be the default for Sublimate though, then have Level 3 be a choice between the movement speed or an increase in Slow duration or intensity. Maybe it’s just because I was so used to old Sublimate, but either Level 3 option just feels disappointing now: with Swelling Wind I don’t feel like I’m helping my team, and with Icemaker I lose my main positioning option. And for someone like Kelvin, who’s very weak to chip damage because of his poor self-heal, not having good positioning tools really hurts.

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I like this idea:

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