Kushan and Taiidan too similar compared to HW2 races

Kushan and Taiidan are almost identical except for visuals.
It feels off that you have such a big gameplay difference between Hiigarians vs. Vaygr vs. HW1 races, yet the two HW1 races could easily be collapsed into a single race.
Gearbox should consider making changes that would differentiate the two HW1 races a lot more (but only for the HWR multiplayer component) as it seems like wasted assets and potential to have them as similar as they are now.

What’s even the point of having two almost identical races?

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You can pick the design you prefer! Big deal! XD

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Yes, and this was fine back in HW1, but it pales when put up against the asymmetric design of the HW2 races.


AKA: Not a new game. HW1 races were designed to be similar. Changing that design would mean its no longer a remastering, and more of a remaking.

Maybe a mod will come out to change them up.

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That is why I suggest that the changes only apply to the remastered multiplayer mode where all the races are available.This mode is already very different from HW1 gameplay(no fuel, formations etc.).
The very idea of pitting HW1 races against HW2 races goes against what a standard remastering entails and its implementation has already caused changes to various units. Differentiating the HW1 races would be the logical progression of this concept as it is already going for HW2-style gameplay.

I think it’s fine to have them be similar, they are already significantly different as a pair from the other two races so it’s not like the game doesn’t have any differentiation. Better to think of them as two flavours of the same race rather than individual ones because trying to make them truly different would be a huge change

The only changes I’d like to see that differentiate Kushan and Taiidan, is make Taiidan ships more heavily armored, and Kushan ships a bit faster and more maneuverable perhaps? I think this would make sense considering how heavy and bulky the Taiidan look, whereas the Kushan are so sleek and agile looking.

Yes, this is the type of changes I would like to see: Not a complete makeover, but some stat changes to make the differences between them more than just visual.

Having four races with three flavours is a waste.
The HW2 races aren’t THAT different, it wouldn’t take much to bring the HW1 races closer to that level.

Changing speeds and armor won’t work as a balance mechanism with the non-balistic hit mechanics. In HW1 the differences between the races were in gun power and coverage. Kushan had harder hitting but fewer guns while Taiidan had more guns that were less powerful. They all hit the same when added together but the differences did change the game play. Taiidan were better at spreading out the pain, Kushan were better at single damage kills. This was the most eveident with the multi-gun corvettes and assault frigates.

Keep in mind that in HW1, the 2 factions didn’t have much difference…why would they be vastly different now? I like how the devs have kept things as close to the original as possible.

If players want a bigger difference between the two factions, simply mod it!

If you want identical factions, then you can play HW1. We’re talking about an entirely different MP, combining two different games now. So the “mod it” cop out is pretty stupid.

Something can be done to make Taiidan and Kushan more unique from each other in this new multiplayer. It would only enhance the depth of the MP.

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I don’t get your point. Different weapon mechanics does not make armor and speed irrelevant. And there are lot of other unit stats that could be changed if you wanted to differentiate the races.

They would be vastly different now because they are being played with HW2 mechanics and races.

HW1 units have already been changed: Corvettes have better stats but behave like HW2 corvettes, assault frigates are now strong against fighters instead of frigates, fighters don’t use formations in combat, frigates are made of paper, cruisers are stronger etc.
The HW1 races have already been updated to HW2 standards in many ways.

If HW1 and HW2 multiplayer was completely separate the symmetric races wouldn’t matter, but it is very clear that they are porting HW1 units to HW2 gameplay and not the other way around.
With the above in mind it is very archaic to keep the symmetrical race design. How does having two identical races benefit the game? Wouldn’t it be a lot more interesting if the choice between Kushan and Taiidan actually mattered? Does anyone really feel that HW2’s more diverse race design makes the game worse?

And no, I don’t want some badly balanced mod that 5 people play to fix this. I would much rather see it as a properly balanced addition to the HWR multiplayer mode.

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Actually, a way to differentiate them would be to add Turanic Raiders for Taiidani, and Kadeshi units for Kushan :ok_hand:

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Only the most hardcore HW1 fans would think that. You make all good points though; we’re dealing with a very different MP now, and we have an opportunity to improve it since this is a BETA.

I could go for something along the lines of varying based on toughness and speed, seems reasonable.

I’m with BYoNexus. As much as I’d like to see a new competitive race, if it’s about creating a whole new one, then it’s beyond the point of remastered.

Although I’m almost certain hw1 races need some balance tuning against hw2 races.

I quite agree with idea of differentiating Taiidan and Kushan. There’s really no point in have two reasons that are basically the same, give or take some unique units. Essentially we really have three races, with two skins for one of them. That is something that should be adjusted.

As was pointed out previously, the combined multiplayer already goes beyond the scope of a mere remaster; it’s technically a brand new game and should be treated as such. I’m with the old salts when it comes to the single player campaign, but as far as multiplayer goes, there needs to be variety.

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As previously said: The HW1 factions have already been changed far beyond what is expected for an ordinary remaster.
Most of the HW1 unit stats have been changed and some even have completely different roles than in the original. These “new” HW1 factions can now be played against HW2 factions, using the mechanics of the latter.
It is not accurate to treat these factions and their design as if they are still being played in HW1 MP, when both the units and the environment they are used in has been been changed so drastically.

Never did I mention creating new races or doing complete remakes of the existing ones, what I suggest is slight changes that makes choosing between Kushan and Taiidan have a meaningful impact on the gameplay. The HW1 factions already have different unique units(drone frigate, shield frigate etc.), the problem is the standard units of each side which are almost completely identical, unlike their HW2 counterparts.

I do realize that at the moment the HWR MP has bigger problems than faction diversity, however it is already clear that it will be necessary to change the HW1 factions even further for them to be able to function alongside the HW2 factions, I hope Gearbox will seize this opportunity to take a critical look at the outdated symmetrical design of the HW1 factions.

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I would say, ideally we want 2 HW1 races that act differently, yet are balanced perfectly against other HW1 and HW2 races but I’m not sure if they can (or have the man power to) bring such variety onto the table and make a great balance in timely manner while everyone complains about the balance in every possible way.

Just sticking to pretty much identical HW1 races is probably already hard enough to make a perfect balance and practically, I’d say, keep them so but balance them well against HW2 races.

Having played games that have 4 + very different races it seems to become exponentially harder to balance the more races you chuck at a game. SC2 for example only has 3 races and that seems to be the sweet spot for asymmetrical balancing (COH2 for example breaks down in team games and the asymmetry is greater than in SC2)

I can perhaps see a minor differentiating in something like speed (to hit modifiers because RNG) vs armor. Something that will make the races different but not make a new race to balance for.

The question I pose is this: do you want a game that is moderately hard to balance or nearly impossible? I’m talking from experience here not a theoretical fantasy world, the more asymmetrical races you add the closer to impossible balancing becomes so what will it be?