Leave no Trace nerf kinda ruins the skill

Does it matter? You are talking as if those other points invested in the tree do nothing. No - you get additional mag, fire rate, crit damage and lots of other buffs for going down the BM tree. But in effect limitless mag Moze is 3 points much like LnT:

  • 1 in Redistribution
  • 1 in Forge
  • 1 in Some for the Road

Every other skill is icing on the cake, which is the flaw of the BM tree that it should really do more with those points.

And Leave no Trace only regenerates 1 ammo, and requires you to be able to continually score crits. Easy in F4de Away - but on any other build - its Absolute Advantage on hard mode. And even with F4de Away, you have to contend with the crazy cooldown - and only have a 5s interval to spam. Hmm, 5s sounds familiar, its almost as if its like a 1 point investment in Some for the Road.

And did you know that Amara also ‘steps on Moze toes’ as well? With a Phasezerker + Dread (which is a 1 point investment I may add), I never ever reload my guns. And without needing to score crits as well (though it would be super easy to do on immobilised enemies). Maybe they should nerf her too? Oh and did you know that Zane has an anointment which is stronger than Forge and Redis combined? Maybe lets nerf that too. Or maybe its because of their versatility, different classes can imitate each other’s playstyles?


I think that’s more of a Moze issue than a FL4k issue. Every character that has a similar set up gets it done in just 1 or 2 skills. Athena, Jack, Sal. Even Amara can mimic it with Dread/Avatar, and Fl4k with LnT.
Moze is the only one that needs several skills to accomplish it consistently. Even then her own Means of Destruction skill in DemoWoman is arguably just as good at it, if not better. Although it did get nerfed in its ability to that, but that nerf seems unintentional since it is explicitly stated in the notes to be just the grenade portion of that skill.

Which now that I think about it seems to be a common issue in Gearbox’s design philosophy. When they too heavily focus a tree around one thing it tends to end up weaker than others. Its pretty common with survival focused trees.

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Oh no!

Please do not f*** forget:

Not everyone can land crits consistently!
Not everyone has x legendary!
Not everyone has enough time to farm!
Not everyone have the mechanical skills!
And this is not a PvP! Is not f***Ing wrong if Someone Who is not as mechanical skilled can shred enemies as easy as the most skilled player.

Let them feel like badasses! For f sake!

Now days every game is a PvP and some can not have fun in those games. Let them feel like a real badass with any build!

🤦Seriously you are telling me x LEGENDARY is to strong with x skill? Isn’t that the point of the mame LENGENDARY?

Isn’t feel like a badass when you finally find the right gear the point of this game?

When i found my lucían’s call i was lvl 18 and i felt powerfull! I used it untill lvl 30 because It made me have fun. I saved in my room on display and later gave it to a friend who made a fl4k.

Yes some stuff is strong and should get tones down, not completly shuted down.

End rant, sorry.

I find it weird they keep nerfing abilities directly instead of just tweaking crit damage output of Fl4k for “balance”. How do you even balance 4 characters with completely different playstyles in a non-competitive game that were probably balanced around further content we haven’t received yet.


haven’t touched fl4k in a while in detail. is this nerf still in place? seems like it is not worth it really then right?

@Gentlemann My recollection is that after initially nerfing the skill by putting in a hidden cooldown timer, they then reduced that cooldown timer significantly after community complaints.

Leave No Trace is a fantastic skill, one of Fl4k’s best, and is absolutely worth taking in my book.


ah I see, thanks for the info! after testing I felt like I didn’t really get that much ammo back, but now I have 2 points in it, getting back one or two shots back ocassionally is still okay I guess

@Gentlemann I go 3/3 in Leave No Trace on every Fl4k build I make and on top of that I generally try for mag size on either my COM or artifact. LNT synergizes really well with Megavore, allowing you to regain ammo even when you don’t crit.

LNT works best with the Reflux/Brainstormer, but it also works really well with high pellet count weapons such as Jakobs shotguns, the Monarch/Dictator AR, and pistols such as the Maggie, Light Show, Unkempt Harold or Craps, and other similar weapons.

I believe that LNT is a must-have skill.


thanks again for the detailed explaination! thats basically exactly why and how I used it. :slight_smile:
I want to get ammo back through megavore, with high firerate, multi pallet guns.
do you by chance know, if reflux/brainstormer can come with the splash on end annoint? and is their damage considered splash?

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The general rule is that only weapons that deal splash damage can come with the splash 200 anoint. Here’s a thread listing all weapons that deal splash. List of All Splash Weapons The Reflux does not get splash damage. There are some Maliwan weapons that do not get splash damage but CAN spawn with the splash 200 anoint, but those are rare. Keep in mind this is a general rule and there may be exceptions.

Also, holy crap thread necromancy! :rofl:


All Maliwan, Torgue, and Tediore can get the splash anointment with only rare exceptions which are generally quest rewards. Not all Maliwan, Torgue, or Tediore weapons do splash damage; Just the majority do.


Thanks, sorry I was working off memory there. I couldn’t recall for certain if there were others than Maliwan that didn’t do splash but could get the splash 200. Makes sense that Torgue and Tediore would be on that list too.

the list sadly isn’t complete, thats why I asked.
BUT I did found a reflux with that annoint at it works great in my new build! thanks for all the tips guys, and I do use 3 points in it now and I do notice it! just have to use the right weapons!

Did you trade for the Reflux? Because I don’t think the Reflux can get the splash 200 anoint. But perhaps I am incorrect there.

EDIT: my point in asking whether you traded for it is because there is a lot of, shall we say, “not completely legitimate” gear floating around out there on the trading forums, Discord, and Reddit.

The Brainstormer cannot get the splash anointment, nor does it do splash damage. It would be unusual for the Reflux to have the anointment (legitimately) or do splash damage.

I haven’t tested that crop of weapons yet personally so it’s possible it could be an outlier. I’d be suspecious of the one you obtained unless you found it yourself.

Yeah all tediore technically do splash when you reload and the gun explodes. Off the top of my head the only Torgue I can think of is the Moonfire that doesn’t deal splash damage.

I’ll try and get to it, sorry. I haven’t played the game much since mayhem 2.0, I’ll see what I can dig up when I have some time. The last comment in the thread has some dlc4 guns but I can’t speak to the validity of it yet.

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oh crap, yes I did got it as gift, damn. I’ll need to check then. thanks for the info, dont want to play with gear that doesnt exist

Edit: right now, the best guns I found that work for me are gargoyle, storm and complexe root.