Legendary gear for use in competitive play

Hello gang
I would like to have a discussion on implementing legendaries into competitive play. I am well aware of the general feeling towards them and why you feel this way so I wanted to talk about an approved list. I think its fair and I would like you to speak on the list specifically first and what items in the list that you take issue with. we can discuss the subject as a whole later.
My list includes all Character specific legendaries so I wont list them ( but if you have issue with any of them, Id like to address that) and a good number of the boss drops.

the boss drops I have excluded are:
Heliophagic Goggles
+11.90% Critical Hit Damage
+5.04% Attack Speed
Once every 5 seconds, a critical melee hit will Blind the target.

“Alamo-7” Armor
-5.60% Damage Reduction
+9.80% Reload Speed
Once every 120 seconds, gain 2 seconds of damage immunity when under 10% health.

Boots of the Brute
+5.60% Movement Speed
+7.14% Critical Hit Damage
Melee attacks will Slow an enemy once every 5 seconds.

Mini-Singularity Launcher
-17.50% Recoil
+4.20 Health Regeneration per Second
Attacks will Slow an enemy once every 10 seconds.

Bunker Buster
+21% Shield Penetration
+9.80% Reload Speed
Deal Bonus Damage to Shields equal to your Shield Penetration percentage.

and I have also taken out all loot box gear as I feel the exclusivity is abit much but we could talk about as well.

heres the list
The Pacifier
+9.10% Attack Damage
+98 Maximum Shield Strength
Damaging enemies lowers their Attack Damage by 10% for 5 seconds.

Symbiotic Gauntlet
+9.10% Attack Damage
+210 Maximum Health
Gain up to +9.10% Attack Damage based on current percentage of max health.

Vow of Vengeance
+9.10% Attack Damage
+5.04% Attack Speed
Stack +0.91% Attack Damage with every melee hit. Max 10 stacks.

Stolen Edge of Arcvynorr
+8.40% Attack Speed
+4.20% Movement Speed
Stack +1.68% Attack Speed on landing a critical hit. Max 5 stacks.

Vow of Zealous Fury
+8.40% Attack Speed
+7.14% Critical Hit Damage
Activating a skill stacks +1.68% Attack Speed. Max 5 stacks.

Sentinel Reset Switch
-21% Buildable Cost
+1.40 Bonus Shards per Second
Your shielded Tier 3 buildables gain +42 Shield Recharge per Second.

H3NCHM4N’s Capacitor
-21% Buildable Cost
+10.50% Shield Penetration
Buildables gain +20% Maximum Shield Strength when you upgrade them to Tier 3.

Hate Reflector
-14% CC Duration
+5.60% Sprint Speed
When under 25% health, CC effects cast on you have a 20% chance to be mirrored back onto the attacker.

Helm of the Imperium
-14% CC Duration
+7.14% Critical Hit Damage
+9.10% Attack Damage for 5 seconds after recovering from CC effects.

Chrono Key
-7% Cooldown Time
+7% Heal Power
Reduce all active skill cooldowns by 1 second for every 2000 damage you deal.

Firmware Update 1.51C
-7% Cooldown Time
+5.60% Sprint Speed
Activating a skill has a 20% chance to reduce all active cooldowns by 2 seconds.

Time Killer
-7% Cooldown Time
+7.14% Critical Hit Damage
Gain +1.05 Second Shield Recharge Delay while all skills are on cooldown.

Hostile_Takeover.exe
+11.90% Critical Hit Damage
+98 Maximum Shield Strength

Vigilant Power Scouter
+11.90% Critical Hit Damage
+210 Maximum Health
Gain +9.10% Attack Damage on your next attack after landing a critical hit.

Poor “M-Pulse” Controller
+11.90% Critical Hit Damage
+4.20% Movement Speed
Killing enemies with a critical hit causes them to explode for 67 damage.

Plasmite Transducer
-5.60% Damage Reduction
-0.63 Second Shield Recharge Delay
Gain shards equal to +5% of damage taken.

Blissbeast Skull Plate
-5.60% Damage Reduction
+4.20 Health Regeneration per Second
Gain -5.60% Damage Reduction for 5 seconds after taking damage from the front.

Void Resonator
+14% Heal Power
+28 Shield Recharge per Second
Heal self for 7% of healing done to allies.

Varelsi Conservator
Symbiotic Spores
+14% Heal Power
+9.80% Healing Received
Grant 9.80% Healing Received to nearby allies. Does not stack.

Vidania Root Poultice
+14% Healing Received
+210 Maximum Health
Gain +4.20% Movement Speed while being healed by an ally.

Leechsteel Brooch
+14% Healing Received
+5.46% Skill Damage
Gain +5.60% Life Steal on damage dealt by skills.

Song of Vigor
+7 Health Regeneration per Second
+9.80% Healing Received
Grant +4.20 Health Regeneration per Second to nearby allies.

Oath of the Sustained
+7 Health Regeneration per Second
+5.46% Attack Damage
2.80% of damage dealt to enemy health is returned to allies as healing.

Premium Health Plan
+280 Maximum Health
+28 Shield Recharge per Second
Gain +28 Shield Recharge per Second while at full health.

Vigilance Link
+280 Maximum Health
+9.80% Healing Received
Grant +150 Maximum Health to all teammates. Does not stack.

One-4-All™ Shield Array
+140 Maximum Shield Strength
+10.50% Shield Penetration
Grant 70 Maximum Shield Strength to all nearby allies. Does not stack.

The Modernista
+140 Maximum Shield Strength
-4.20% Cooldown Time
Bullets that hit your shield have a 20% chance to reflect back at your attacker.

Mossire’s Mukluks
+5.60% Movement Speed
+7% Heal Power
Gain +5.60% Movement Speed while being healed.

The Stable Executioner
-17.50% Recoil
-7% CC Duration
Normal attacks gain a 7% chance to deal 50% bonus damage.

Vyn’s Quiver
+21% Reload Speed
+4.20 Health Regeneration per Second
On reload, gain up to +4.20 Health Regeneration per Second based on bullets left in the magazine.

Veil Breaker Rounds
+21% Reload Speed
+10.50% Shield Penetration
The last round in a magazine prevents the target’s shield from charging for 10 seconds.

Mag Daemon
+21% Reload Speed
-7% CC Duration
Reloads performed while sprinting gain -14.70% Reload Speed.

Quartermastery Bin
+2.10 Bonus Shards per Second
+10.50% Shield Penetration
Share an additional 30% of shard income with teammates.

Veil Manipulator
+2.10 Bonus Shards per Second
+5.46% Skill Damage
Gain Health Regeneration per Second for shards on-hand, up to +4.20 at 1000 shards.

Intermittent Angel
-1.05 Second Shield Recharge Delay
+28 Shield Recharge per Second
Your shield gains a 20% chance to immediately begin recharging once broken.

Doomsday Key
-1.05 Second Shield Recharge Delay
+5.46% Skill Damage
Gain 12.60% Attack Speed for 5 seconds when your shield depletes after a full charge.

Guardian Shieldbreaker
+21% Shield Penetration
+4.20 Health Regeneration per Second
Melee attacks deal +5.46% Bonus Damage to Shields.

UPR-SG12 “Wolfskin”
+42 Shield Recharge per Second
+10.50% Shield Penetration
Reduce knockback distance by 50% .

The Long Goodbye
+42 Shield Recharge per Second
-4.20% Cooldown Time
On death, your shield explodes dealing +140 damage to nearby enemies.

Vibro-Core Module
+42 Shield Recharge per Second
+5.46% Skill Damage
Damaging enemy shields powers your shield for 14% of the damage.

Shield Web Interdictor
+9.10% Skill Damage
+98 Maximum Shield Strength
Skill hits prevent enemies’ shields from charging for 8 seconds.

Codex Fragment
+9.10% Skill Damage
+210 Maximum Health
Stack +0.91% Skill Damage when taking damage. Max 10 stacks.

Lorrian Skill Spike
+9.10% Skill Damage
+4.20% Movement Speed
Skills gain a 7% chance to deal 50% bonus damage.

Bola’s Target Finder
+9.10% Skill Damage
+5.04% Attack Speed
Damaging enemies with Skills increases damage dealt to them by +5.60% for 10 seconds.

Synthaline Tonic
+9.80% Sprint Speed
+7.14% Critical Hit Damage
+5.60% Lifesteal from damaging an enemy after sprinting for 3 seconds.

list obtained from http://lowlidev.com.au/battleborn/#m=drop thank you

What’s your general thought process behind banned gear?

1 Like

I honestly dont like the idea behind putting any of the games content behind a make believe wall but I have had and read many conversations with people who are very passionate about Competitive Battleborn and want to push it farther as a true competitive experience. I am 100% behind the idea making Battleborn better for every type of player but the idea ignoring an entire part of one of the core mechanics seemed wrong to me.

There are certain pieces of gear that have no place in serious play. Anything that makes you entirely immune to damage is wrong and its many forms of abuse are immediately obvious. Gear with added CC effects like slow and blind are a big issue for debate. Again I personally don’t find as much issue with this now that slows usefulness has been drastically reduced but I still understand the hesitance. Taking out Loot Pack legendaries was for the reason I stated in my initial post. Their exclusivity takes away balance in 2 ways. 1 being the inability to actively hunt for that specific piece of gear and 2 the rare nature of the gear leads me to believe that further testing needs to be done for the gear so we can avoid combos like Kelvin (or any character with a great mobility/repel/escape skill) and Borrowed timer. A lot of the gear is fine but It being fine doesn’t solve the first issue.

I hate the idea of taking out anything interesting/unique for competitive play. Rubs me the wrong way.

1 Like

Amen
But it is hard to deny that somethings are indeed imbalanced. I’d like to think that one day we’ll get closer to true balance but in the meantime with things like tournament play, compromises have to be made. I’m trying to help ease things up.

The easiest way to balance it is to remove them entirely. There’s always going to be a debate of which legendary gear should and shouldn’t be allowed, so to simplify, remove em all.

1 Like

I get you but I didn’t mean it would make things easier. In fact it would add an extra layer of complexity and discussion in competitive play and I think that’s always a good thing. Only when we push ALL the game to its limit will we find the real problems. I know it’s simpler to say Ban them all @hockeyswede31 but take a moment to consider my list and what I propose. What issues do you see and do you think there is no reasonable way to resolve those issues outside of throwing them all away?

1 Like

because then you start getting into a community wide debate about legendaries are\arnt viable nd people will always disagree. Plus it makes matches more about pure skill than item intuativeness.

if every player had access to every item at max roll then maybe, the ones from loot packs should be more right banned than then ones from story though which is the majority of your list. Atleast with story ones you can keep grinding whatever mission until you get the one youve been looking for.

Adding roughly 20% attack speed from a piece of gear is dumb, same thing for attack damage. Bola target finder is stupid. Voxis core is absurd. I could go on and on saying how many legendaries change the mechanics of the game. It becomes less of what character should I choose and what helix choices should I pick. It’s what gear should I pick to alter the characters design away from how the developers made them. I have no interest in that. They’ve already stated they will eventually be implementing a draft system. The whole point of the draft is to pick a team that 1 works well together, and 2 counters the other teams choices. What’s the point when you can just pick gear that counters everything a character. They have a Kleese? Doesn’t matter who I pick, I’ll just use shield web and they can’t get shields recharged, I win. That’s ridiculous and is just one example, no thanks.

[quote=“liamxboxlive13, post:8, topic:1544935, full:true”]
because then you start getting into a community wide debate about legendaries are\arnt viable nd people will always disagree. Plus it makes matches more about pure skill than item intuativeness.
[/quote] Debate and discussion are always a good thing. Yes debates can often get heated and people often get angry when defending their opinions and ideals but that usually comes from a place of caring.

The game is fairly knowledge intensive as most competitive games are. I’d imagine any player who takes this game seriously knows every characters abilities, their helixs (if not then the majority), all the nuanced game mechanics, and each character legendary. What’s learning 111 items (39 of which are excluded)?

1 Like

[quote=“liamxboxlive13, post:9, topic:1544935, full:true”]
if every player had access to every item at max roll then maybe, the ones from loot packs should be more right banned than then ones from story though which is the majority of your list. Atleast with story ones you can keep grinding whatever mission until you get the one youve been looking for.
[/quote]I forgot to mention the limitation of one legendary per character. I think that would balance out the grind. With the current drop rates it doesn’t take a particularly long time to get any one specific boss drop.
And all loot pack items were excluded. the list is entirely boss drops and character specifics.

[quote=“hockeyswede31, post:10, topic:1544935”]
Adding roughly 20% attack speed from a piece of gear is dumb, same thing for attack damage. Bola target finder is stupid. Voxis core is absurd.
[/quote] SEoA and VoZF only raise you to 16.8 as apposed to a blue which bring you up to 13.44%
Bola’s target finder increases damage taken by 5.6% which isn’t huge but I think the time time should be reduced. 10 seconds is far too long. And Voxis isn’t in the list. Does it still work with normally AOE spells?
And great example with shield web interdictor. I’ll have to test that. Giving him a 8 second shield recharge like everyone else is worth mentioning but does ruin his role as a character.
And your right that legendaries do have an impact on the dynamics of a character but do you think 1 per load out would alter any character or team comp in such a way as to ruin them? You would have to have 27-30 load outs to counter every character.

1 Like

Vow of vengeance and symbiotic gauntlet can both go to 18.2%, so maybe saying “roughly 20%” is a little drastic, but still an insane stat. Orendi with voxis core absolutely breaks the game. Benedict with symbiotic is insane, especially because it’s usually accompanied by 2 other attack damage items. Toby with his legendary is ugh. Ambra with infinite fireballs is stupid. There’s just too many examples. 1 legendary gear can change a game if the player is skilled enough yes.

Have to re-test but the Voxis Core doesn’t work atm.

Some character really needs their legendary to be played at full potential ==> Reyna, Caldarius (Ambra, not anymore as heat charge faster now)

This is how MOBA works, and Battleborn is a MOBA/FPS. And here in Battleborn you can’t choose your gear during a game, so you can’t change to shield pen if enemies are stacking shield. So i don’t see where is the problem.

Same, in MOBA (LOL for the example) there are lots of items that adds Slow, Immunity, Resurrection, Dash, New Attack, Increasing Speed Boost, Turret “IEM” and even the possibility to place a minions generator to help you to push the lane etc… And it works really well.

ofc some still have to be balanced, but where is the problem to add those kind of action ? I see it as something that add more options and more options means more strategy and more strategy = more competitive

If we ban legendaries because they change the mechanics of the game. We should also ban 0 cost shards generator, because they also have an huge impact on the gameplay, maybe bigger than legendaries.

Not to mention that Legendaries have a high cost, so while you farm for them you won’t place turret and minions => less xp. It’s double edges.


It just needs for a competitive game mode to have access to all items max roll

2 Likes

I assure you that voxis core works first off. Secondly, if you need a characters legendary gear to be successful with them then you aren’t going to fare well in the true competitive scene. As cocky and condescending as that sounds, sorry but it’s the truth. I think there are a few characters who aren’t viable in competitive in their current state but the 2 examples of Reyna and caldarius aren’t them at all. I can’t recall the last competitive game I’ve played where Reyna wasn’t picked or banned by either team, and we’ve done 2 tourneys in the last 2 weeks. Next we are talking a tourney style which has a draft, so depending on what characters they pick, I could alter what gear I want to use. Lastly, how does a 0 cost shard gen change the mechanics? How many turrets are you going to buy with just your shard generator? It’s not a lot. Id have to wait 2.5 minutes for my shard gen to be able to buy me a tier 1 buildable. You also lose a gear spot that you could be stacking max health or attack damage or whatever with as well by choosing to use one. shard gens do help with the early game, but you still have to run around getting shards, just like everybody else. If you’re buying giant minions for levels only, you are foolish. Even suggesting the possibility of 0 cost shard gens having more effect than legendary gear is blasphemy. Legendary gear destroys late game when characters are strong. Competitive games usually go the distance, I have an issue with a team playing super defensive until the end of the game when their legendary gear can take over and I don’t think it belongs in any competitive event in this game. Buying a piece of gear that damages person B when you hit person A is not strategy at all as an example. That’s having an item do the work for you. I like to win because my team worked together well, not because our gear worked together well.

1 Like

Why? Why just legendaries and not all gear? Plenty of legendaries don’t give anything except stat boosts under specific circumstances, just like any other gear piece.

1 Like

I can’t speak for tbawin I don’t think he meant that characters are unviable but their gear augments them in such a way to increase their viability in a specific role.
And again I’m saying Voxis is out its not part of the list. Loot pack legendaries are unfair by nature of loot packs.
Most of the competitive games I’ve been apart of usually go 20+ minutes and shards usually hit around 5k a person -1000 less a per person is a big deal.
On the topic of 0 shard generators
His example seemed dramatic but it does beg the question
Why aren’t all gear items banned? This is absolutely the last thing I want but I think you would have to agree that common-epic gear and their acquisition is far more RNG dependent then legendaries.

1 Like

Or legendaries could have variable cost

This is exactly what i was saying, ofc you can play them really well without their lore legendaries. But as i said if you want to play them at "Full Potential" you have to use theirs.

And/or that…

I really think the only obstacle that unable us to use Legendaries in competition is the RNG. But that’s not only for legendaries… actually i find it more difficult to get some epics gear than legs. Since june i’m searching an Epic Jennerit Battery for Deande, but impossible to get one… so i’ve to use the Voxis Core for the stat, but i don’t care of the VC’s passive on Deande. So i put 700-1050 shards for nothing

Make it easier to get all items we want should also be a solution. The crafting system seen in the AMA would be THE solution, but it’s low on their priority list… so don’t expect it before 2017.
But if we can get every items too easily it wouldn’t be fun either as a point of the game is to farm in PVE for the PVP

Maybe make an other instance of the game for competition (a bit like ARK : Survival of the Fittest, which is like a second game), but again it will divide the playerbase