Legendary Siren vs Legendary Binder

Hello guys!

I have a quick question regarding the Legendary Siren and Legendary Binder class mods, at OP8 specifically. I’m playing a build that I came up with on my own, generally focused on Crowd Control while trying to boost up my damage as much as possible. I realize that the Legendary Siren class mod reduces my Action Skill cooldown twice as much as the Legendary Binder does, but then again the latter boosts up my Reaper skill.

I’m really in doubt of which one to use, what would you recommend? Have anyone done the math which of the two class mods has higher damage output?

Thanks in advance for your replies, will try to get back to you as soon as possible! :slight_smile:

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They are close to a wash DPS wise, I would look at the other stuff they do.

Ward and flicker vs Helios and Sweet Release.

The way I look at them is L Siren for non SS builds and L Binder for SS builds

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Can I ask you to post a link to your build.

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Hi Derch!

Thanks a lot for the quick reply!

I personally am not too much of a fan of Helios, I used it for a while but I have the feeling that the higher I went with levels and OP, the less useful it became, might be just me though.

Sweet release is a nice one but it’s really situational in my opinion. It’s nice when things hit the fan, but I find Elated a much better fit for my gameplay, in many situations I had Sweet Release just overhealing.

Ward and Flicker are skills I hugely depend on, since I’m going for full Elemental damage alongside the Bee.

Well, I guess I just answered my own question, eh? :slightly_smiling:

@Piemanlee, sure, although don’t expect much! Where could I do that?

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bl2skills.com use this site.
Edit: your just looking for advice on the com right and not the build?

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If you are going bee then go L Siren, 80% recharge delay and more often phaselocks play much better with the bee.

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Here, I think I got it:

Still have 1 point in Helios due to the L Binder mod (I got it as a drop long before L Siren), felt bad to have a boosted skill without using it :slight_smile: Combine that build with a Singularity grenade and you have pretty much permanent lockdown of enemies. As I said, build is something I came up on my own, won’t be surprised if it’s super bad compared to the standard builds.

Edit: Forgot to say I also use Bone of the Ancients.
Edit 2: Yes, only looking for advice on the class mod, but opinions about the build are welcome too. I play with a friend so don’t be surprised by the Res point.

Yep, this sounds about right! Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts!

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Are you using a Bone of the Ancients?

EDIT: Nevermind, 1 moment

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Well since idk what guns you use 5/5 accelerate could be a bad thing. Also the build looks good but for my taste it doesn’t have enough healing for op8 but that’s just me. Also just a suggestion since both those coms boost cdr I wouldn’t get quicken, but again.that’s just me.

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L. Siren

  • Phaselock cooldown duration 5.65 seconds
  • 54% gun damage
  • 20% bullet speed
  • +25% shield capacity -40% delay
  • 25% crit damage 30% melee damage
  • 30% elemental effect chance
  • 20% mag and 25% reload speed
  • 45% movement speed (w/ phaselock)

L. Binder

  • Phaselock cooldown duration 6.31 seconds
  • 29% team cooldown
  • 40% multiplicative gun damage while enemies are above half health.
  • Rank 5 Helios (It’s good for Moxxi healing at least)
  • Increase to phaselock’s duration by 2.5 seconds
  • 50% fire rate and 30% gun damage (w/ phaselock)
  • +5 healing ords for you and your team.

I just wrote it all out for you to see it for yourself. And unless you can’t cough up the 2/3s of a second on the cooldown duration I think you can overlook it if that’s what is holding you back.

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He said he is using the bee, so that extra 40% delay is huge

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So is 40% multiplicative damage. But if he doesn’t need it then yeah the delay would be better.

Like I said I’m only listing the stuff, and said the 0.66 second difference in cooldown duration isn’t really something to frett over if that was the determining factor.

L. Siren _ 3.42 second Bee delay
L. Binder _ 4.4

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Mind’s eye also multiplies the bee but at the entire health bar.

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And the 50% FR gets more of those amp shots out there.

I’m not here to vouch for either one. Like I said I was only laying out what they each did, along with how the reductions effect stats in question.

Along with how he seems to think Flicker and the BotA work the same based on how he phrased his post. And his dislike of Helios. But I may just be reading to far into it.

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I go with a Binder for team play and a Siren for when we take on Pete. I’d say try them both and use whichever one feels right to you. Just remember the Binder’s CDR also applies to your friend, while the Siren’s is just for you.

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Here are the DPS numbers

Op8 transmurdera (all hyperion smg with damage acc), bee, and bone, and critical hit
Gun Damage 194670
Accuracy 0.965
Fire Rate 8.7
Reload Speed 2.1
Magazine Size 35
Amp Damage 1,825,860

I used my calc for the calculations

Phaselock up, above 50% health

L Binder: 64,511,019
L. Siren: 56,989,960

L Binder wins by 13.2%

Phaselock up below 50% health

L Binder: 35,839,455
L Siren: 40,707,114

L Siren wins by 11.96%

Phaselock down above 50% health

L Binder: 37,850,897
L Siren: 39,249,375

L Siren wins by 5.6%

Phaselock down below 50% health

L Binder: 20,583,831
L Siren: 28,035,268

L Siren wins by 26.58%

So the binder while on paper looks better for DPS only really does better for DPS in one out of 4 situations. A big part of that is people just look at damage and think DPS and they forget forsight. Also the one situation that the L Binder wins at barely matters because if you have the bee and bone and phaselock up everything dies so fast anyways you are on your DPS cap other than on large bosses.

Now with the L siren you also have much quicker recharge delay and phaselock up more often. I know some might say, “well suspension” but in realtiy if you have the bee and bone you are not going to use the full duration 95% of the time anyways.

I still say Binder wins with Subsequence builds because then you will use the full duration but in non SS builds and with the bee its the L Siren for the win but it is close.

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Nor would you need that increase in mag/reload speed. But to each their own.

I’m just trying to give both an honest wrap.

But personally if I’m for whatever reason mobbing with a Bee I’d use the L. Siren as I prioritize cooldown, and shield recharge delay over everything else as I’m doing so much damage already I focus on utility. Ala “Borderlands 2: Stop Wasting Skill Points”.

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