Lets be honest. Beatrix is gonna be overpowered when she releases

Oh I didn’t see the bottom text. They’re changing the De-turtler? Interesting. What’s the point of Pendle’s legendary now? xD

This would indeed alleviate some of the problem, but it does consume an already clogged load out, and it is crit reliant.

Only time will tell.

Thanks for sharing that, I’m curious what other legendaries are being revamped now.

Enormous post Epic, and a good read.

The tonal shift is huge, and I may have absolutely misread the tone of your initial call-out to me. Whoops!

Long posts are exhausting as it is, so I won’t be continuing a check list response, and I don’t see that one is needed either. You clarified every point well, and I clearly see where you’re coming from.

The air’s cleared up, on my end. Thank you for the chat.
Cheers.[quote=“epicender584, post:97, topic:1554004”]
While this is somewhat true, some of her helices actually hurt her. In fact, mutation 2, right three, everything on 4, and all in. There’s useless helices and then there’s this. The closest I can think of is perhaps Ambra’s abysmal level 2 or ~
[/quote]

Alani… you were leading towards Alani right? xD

Also isn’t Ambra’s level 2 a 30% increase in regeneration and pick and go spots, and step and explode spots (both being nerfed admittedly) Is it that bad?

Thanks lol

Possibly not. I was very ah, blunt before. Thanks for understanding

Yeah, that’s kinda true. They don’t exactly hurt her to the point where it may be better not to take it, but it does hurt to look at. Physical pain

Yeah. The issue is, the two explodey ones appear to only go off sometimes. And they go off for significantly less even though the burst is useful. You out it down and you think you’re red barring cuz it’s gone and no health bars seem to have moved. They kill sunspots. :sob:

They use to be good no? Especially the burst heal one, if used with her scorching strike cd reducer on Sunspots.
Now? Ya, I never pick them. EVER. Not even for lulz.

But they were nerfed, so they had some value long, long long ago. Did you use them then?

I’ll just say one final thing about Mellka, then, seeing as the subject has come to the surface here…

She is distinctive among Battleborn in being nerfed, and steadily nerfed, since release. She had her venom duration decreased by 100% (and its damage increased by 50% - a net decrease in damage and shield mitigation.) She had her health reduced by 18%. She had her accuracy reduced by 10%. Unlike other characters altered by hotfixes - Galilea, Benedict, Boldur, El Dragon, Ambra, Kleese - she has never had any of these delivered in accompaniment with small buffs, and they have never been walked back. She has in that respect been the most bluntly handled character in the game. Probably only ISIC has fared worse (El Dragon is at least clearly an ongoing project.)

Her only clear buff since launch, a Wound to Spike, was given out along with a suite of identical buffs to other characters. It came alongside the nerf to venom that made it more difficult to apply.

She always seems to bear the brunt of minor bugs and oversights. Her ops skins only change the color of the claw and don’t tint her hair. Her Traveler skin doesn’t tint the gun. They gave her the same call out for her friendly and enemy ult. Her only attention in the last big patch was to change the name of one of her most pointless helixes. Her alt fire melee does less damage than the majority of other character’s quick melees. Her sprint modifier appears to be broken or at least is much lower than anyone else’s but Deande’s. Air Stall sometimes doesn’t work until you die. Parting Gift pools sometimes don’t apply venom. And so on.

Ironically, Mell has never been the target of serious talk about being OP. At launch, people were deciding whether she was low A or high B tier. Remember the fuss when Alani got nerfed from godlike to just excellent? Remember all the people who quit over that? That’s what it looks like to unreasonably “bicker” over a nerfed character…

My own response to Mell’s decline has been to honestly and candidly study, detail, and continually reassess her strengths and failings. I am hopeful that gives me a pass to joke, now and then, about her bad accuracy and low health. Because these may not compromise her as a character, but they do take on a certain comic significance when the devs take months to even dare tweaking Benedict.

Maybe the real problem is, there’s this “buff” or “nerf” dialectic going on, but my feelings about Mell don’t sit that way. You gotta know what it’s like to genuinely care about only one character to really understand why I write 2000 word posts about her alt melee, even if I’m happy to see it never be improved and think she’s fine anyway. The things I write are mistaken for “complaints” or “calls for buffs” when really I’m just trying to keep her design a living topic.

Ultimately, nothing will ever stop me playing Mellka. And for that reason, I never want to spin her situation as better or worse than it really is. Whatever the truth of her place in the game, I like to think that people can reliably hear it from me first.

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image

Same reason i’m slowly losing my identity to Toby…
Sniff… I just love that little guy SO MUCH!

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You do not understand… but you will.

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@EdenSophia the thing that makes you scary with mellka is your intimate understanding of how her kit interacts, I have a good working knowledge of all the characters but I put more effort on learning the gear items @FlamesForAll can attest to some of my recent quirk builds

However outside of the matches the thing that is HUMBLING is how you step forward to teach others and accept others knowledge.

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So basically, back in beta when she was queen, they were much stronger and so were cooldown items… she could throw them out every few seconds. Her ability to constantly throw out spots and eat them was similar the most Pacman. Terrifying. They neutered them in exchange. And as with every main I’ve ever had, I first played her and thought she was meh. I could them tell how OP she was instantly but decided to leave that to others and just focused on using Miko to carry (people were bad enough to give me triples while also getting great heals). It was a different time

¯\(ツ)

I did tests when determining my best build for her, but that’s the only time I ever have. Weird thing, I actually choose radiant spear. Long considered the worst helix choice at 7, but I get little use out of meleeing at higher levels when skills become most of my damage

I’ve always found it amusing that they made different animations for grounded and in-air quick meleeing. She probabaly ends up using those the least too because it’s replaced with the new yet static air stall

People still mentioned wanting to quit when Riptide got reduced by 4 seconds. Now she’s just above average. Oh no

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Don’t. Please don’t shut up in the future. A lot of your posts have been really good imo

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Yep, that’s our Eden; 1 part frightening, and 2 parts helpful.

Like a mohawked Dr. Jeckel…

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Have anyone noticed how some gear can destroy/bug your character?

Have anyone tried 100% cc reduction on pendles?
Or max reload speed on melka?
Maybe max attack speed on deande?

I wonder if we are going to see more cc removal gear like this

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Doesn’t really make any difference because the gear is trash and no-one will use it.

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I think everyone is over reacting (including myself), the only thing she will change is how long you can dive with a pocket healer.

Need to retreat for a healing? You are probably going to spend 5 seconds to recharge your shield and other 3 seconds to max it.

Beatrix wound for 3-5 sec but it dosent matter if you retreated for a healing. If something needs to change is:
A) everyone should have longer cc from 1sec to 2-3
B) increase her cd
C) reduce the cc duration of her kit ( but is all she got… That would be sad)
D) gear that grants inmunity for x amount of seconds every x seconds or gear that removes cc
E) helix to remove cc effects or transfer them to the enemy

That feel when wound boldur and still can’t kill him :frowning:

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Then wounds should be useless in the context that I wrote that quote on. The Chrono Key’s stats were and are useless, but everyone still heavily used it for its legendary effect.

Attikus is in an the same boat, honestly. He got a rebalance in the form of losing his knock-up and stun, but getting a much needed health boost.

After that, nothing to address his lack of hard CC other than an extremely difficult to land silence. (You can Pounce right on top of someone, and they probably won’t get silenced.)

Tbh, I just think the AoE damage caused by Pounce needs to be bigger. About as big as when the Big Splash helix is active… then replace the helix with something else, like cooldown reduction on Pounce.

I’m @'ing @Jythri because I don’t think I’ve ever specifically mentioned things Attikus needs to have looked at… and because I don’t know Grant’s name on the forums :joy:

Also, to completely derail the topic, what IS Attikus supposed to do in order to support his team? His design philosophy just doesn’t seem very, well… much of a design philosophy.

Is he a tank who absorbs damage for his team and protects them? Clearly not, as he has only two viable helices (Brawler’s Boon, Hedronic Siphoning, Invigorating Pounce, Energetic Pounce, and Unstoppable are either too useless or the opportunity cost is too high) that genuinely boost his damage mitigation (Dampening Field and Hedronic Regeneration) and they simply don’t allow him to do that effectively. There really isn’t anything that would let him fill this role without completely reworking him or significantly buffing his less viable helices.

Is he a disruptor that prevents enemies from properly using their skills and countering territorial characters? (As well as wounding healers and their targets?) Kind of. His silence is very difficult to land, and it’s also tied to his only escape move. It lets him get in a territorial character’s face easily and push them back… if they don’t take advantage of the fact that he can’t escape. It also lets him interrupt ultimates and other skills if timed properly. The moment I hear a ult call-out, I Pounce on who did the call-out and silence them out of it… at great risk to myself.

To better fulfill his role as a disruptor, he’d need a shorter cooldown and bigger AoE on Pounce, and another hard CC. Perhaps returning the stun on Pounce and he knock-up on Hedronic Eruption? (Maybe individual enemies can only be knocked-up once per use of Hedronic Eruption. e.g. Attikus hits and knocks-up Phoebe on shockwave 1 of one Hedronic Eruption, and then hits Phoebe and Ambra on shockwave 2 of the same Hedronic Eruption. Ambra gets knocked-up on shockwave 2, Phoebe does not. This can be accomplished by putting a counter on Attikus that increments every time he uses Hedronic Eruption, so he would have Hedronic Eruption use 1, use 2, ect. Then, whenever he hits a target with Hedronic Eruption, the game checks if he has already hit the target with this given use of his ultimate. If the check returns false, they are knocked-up. If they check returns true, they are not knocked-up.)

Is he a mobile assassin that leaps in unexpectedly to kill enemies? Apparently so. (For the sake of example, let’s say Attikus has a Rare Jennerit sprint speed item equipped, making him very mobile. +9.8% sprint speed, +5.6% sprint speed on a melee hit). He dishes out very high damage. His charged hook can instantly bring down a shield, and can one-shot squishies if it crits. Much of his kit revolves around dealing damage. Hedronic Arc is a straight-up DPS increase, and it’s also a wound… a CC effect that assassins typically have. Hedronic Eruption does around 1400 damage at level five, and a whopping 4800 at level ten with the Wake of Devastation helix. It also slows them, making the kill even easier. His Pounce can be used to escape or silence (and slow at level 2) enemies, preventing them from escaping.

Many of his helix options also revolve around dishing out damage or weakening enemies for easy kills. Staggering Pounce slows enemies for 3 seconds, basically guaranteeing their death. Tenacity is insane… and is one of the few things that make Attikus viable. Take away Tenacity or pick the wrong helix, and it’s game over for Attikus. Dampening Field allows for safer kills, and Quickening Arc allows for more mobility (to chase kills with). Hedronic Haste allow for more uses of his skills, and Charge Efficiency allows for fully charged benefits all the time. Disruptor Field is a straight-up damage increase for Hedronic Arc, and Chain Breaker is a potential damage increase or mobility option. Skull Crusher and Swift Strikes are both pure DPS boosts. Big Splash and Power Pounce are both pure damage boosts. Hedronic Chain, Greased Lightning, and Aftershock are ALL pure damage boosts. Wake of Devastation, Payback Time, and Unstoppable Rampage are ALL pure damage boosts.

To make Attikus more viable as a mobile assassin (har har, like he needs it), a small increase to his base movement speed (like +5%) and a shortened cooldown on Pounce (like 10-15%). Really, that’s all he needs for proper QoL.

So… the giant bull cyber-demon the size of a truck from beyond the stars (and is actually just a really intelligent cow) that sucks the souls out of people to crush them and power up his attacks is an assassin who moves at lightning speed and specializes in beating up puny enemies who can barely take a hit? Not complaining, but it is a peculiar design choice. There’s no denying he’s incredibly fun to play, but it definitely feels like there’s a miscommunication as to how this character is supposed to be used.

Did I mention reducing the cooldown on Pounce?

I’m just going to repeat myself here: any wounded melee character can’t be in lane to try and get damage in on waves. Smaller melee characters manage this better thanks to being a harder target or more mobile.

But our large target melee characters will be in trouble. They won’t be able to stay on lane to get experience because Beatrix simply needs to look on their direction and now they can’t survive the heat coming at them because their presence is so obvious. So basically that’s Attikus pushed further down and Kelvin is literally only brought along for Sublimating and staying hidden otherwise. Boldur may see a bit of a drop in use but only because he’s a marginally easier target than Galilea, who is still the only meta melee tank.

Even Montana and ISC will suffer, but it won’t be as bad since they can still get damage on waves as ranged characters. They won’t be any good for spearheading pushes, however, unless Beatrix can be taken out of the equation beforehand.

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Something worth mentioning is that Beatrix also pushes these characters to new extremes with Patient Zero. +25% attack speed from the very start, and an early helix with +40% life steal. Those stats mean Attikus can get 70% lifesteal (if lifesteal bonuses are additive) with Invigorating Pounce, and 42% lifesteal while wounded. On top of that, he gets +45% attack speed (if additive) with Swift Strikes and Patient Zero. These big melees can easily become monsters with our new pal.

Where was that post that a certain friend did with all the attack speed data? The Attikus main with an Ellie forum picture?

nvm mind, found it.

Smaller melees can get just as monstrous without being easily focused targets. That being said, the damage reduction option on Patient Zero is likely better - damage reduction can’t be reduced by an opposing Beatrix, after all.

It sounds scary on paper but it’s incredibly tough to get around the fact that these characters are physically designed to attract attention in a game that allows for a lot of ways to punish a character that is the center of attention. If you are wounded and being focused by even just two of the opposing team’s damage dealers, you are going to drop to dangerous health levels within 3-4 seconds or less. Attikus can’t start destroying minions fast enough until level 3 to accomplish anything there, he has to settle for assist exp on the kills, which keeps him leveling slowly.

I’m secretly excited for Beatrix + El Dragón. She can give him his level 5 damage reduction and his level 6 attack speed boost at level 2, very effectively mitigating his early game with proper coordination. Needless to say things will get ugly when he actually reaches level 5.

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