Let's Rework Zane's Class Mods

Yea, Topped Off especially just gives essentially always on 200% cooldown rate which makes any skills for cooldown rate useless. If it didn’t exist, Adrenaline would actually be useful.

Have any input to give on any of my suggestions for changes?

what is fof?

Was a typo, meant for lol

yes i could give ton of feedback but it does not matter gbx does it in their own way they already changed 3 class mods and i do not see them taking away anything from players other than they acknowledged finally after a year that coms were garbage. sorry for off topic.

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i like what i read
some things i want to add

1 antifreeze is a joke classmod around an annointment that doesnt exist anymore, i rly think giving it cryo immunity and basically turning cry dmg / slow you take and turn it into a buff, would make it so much better
so essentially if you start taking cryo dmg you instead get movespeed and if you would be at max cryo / frozen or close to you get a super buff that gives you that buff ur clone gets when consuming 3 granades

2 cold warrior should 1 increase elemental dmg by like 100% or 50% or whatever
then make ur actionskills able to apply random elemental damage if they inflict other elemental dmg
speak cryo or radiation for sntnl
any element wih clone or cryo
shield effects from the barrier if you got the skill with that

3 conductor is an interesting idea, but in practice without seeing dead you cant do the infinite / long time actionskill duration which sucks
and the dmg gets rly low rly fast
so i would actually just change it so the dmg is either 75% per actionskill to keep the dmg high up longer
or make it PER actionskill you gain 40% flat
or give it something cool that refreshes actionskills somehow, we soon get a short actionskill and it would be dope to have, but you cant play them together

4 the executor is kinda basic… i tried it and it still doesnt feel that great honestly, it could totaly have a skill like 50% longer killskill duration or 25… it would help alot

5 hustler desperatly needs to count as normal crits or like fl4ks crits where you can still shoot a weakspot to get even higher crits
and it should not consume the stacks
you should stack them up and keep the stacks until you stop shooting for a while

6 infiltrator needs the new skilltree to have some no shield bonis / skills, to get some synergy like the lower the shield the stronger you get
if you have no shield killskills are constantly active or whatever

7 seeing dead rly needs to lose the activation and swap that to seeing red, rly desperatly…

8 shockraptor is the biggest joke lmao mod ever
it e super cool if the thing is a granade classmod enhancing granade dmg by 300% and giving him a chance to idk trigger a cryo nova when a granade hits

9 techspert needs to reset SNTNLs augments and increase its dmg by 100% - 200% then it would be good
cuz the drone aint that strong, but with tripple the dmg and almighty ordinance it be alot better

or give sntnl almighty ordinance augement and it fires every 5 seconds at its current target

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This logic makes no sense to me. If he’s deficient in getting Crit damage, then that’s exactly why he needs a mod like this, as it fills a much needed niche. A COM that increased crit damage for Fl4k? That would probably be a waste, since he already has so many means of doing crits. But for Zane? That’s actually a very good idea for a COM.

Crits of course are their own reward (even though this mod’s crits aren’t treated mathematically as pure crits, but that’s a separate issue), but as you mentioned yourself, Zane has one skill that particularly gels with crits: Brain Freeze. And it’s a hell of a skill, around which entire playstyles can be built. And that’s the key. See a manifestation of this in this thread: How I Made Zane's New Crap-Tier Class Mod God-Tier (+Save File)

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The infiltrator com actually works really well with a CCC build if you pair it with the Rough Rider or Adrenaline Initiative. The only issue is that the only reason to run a CCC build is if you don’t own the Jackpot dlc and can’t get SD.

You can use it with conductor 100% shock bonus pretty well

Antifreeze: There’s some major issues with this COM. First of all, unlike the anointment that got removed, the antifreeze damage bonus is just additive to all of his other gun damage bonuses. The old anointment was multiplicative which gave it some one-shot potential on Zane. The second issue is, that whilst it does in fact help a bit against cryo, you still cannot slide when cryo’d, even though you can now be faster with cryo than without.

Cold Warrior: The primary effect is just hot garbage. I think for this COM to work, 2 things need to happen. 1) Give it an Icebreaker effect. Nothing fancy, just literally the same that you get as a prefix on artifacts. 2) Give it Brainfreeze instead of Ready for Action so you get more and easier freezes.

Conductor: Not Zane’s worst COM but not particularily good, either. I’d say replace Adrenaline (which is just useless) with Cool Hand for some extra reload speed or Praemunitus. Also, add a kill skill “After killing an enemy, deal an additional 25% shock damage for 8 seconds”

Executor: Kind of alright, but also pretty meh. I’d say maybe swap out Playing Dirty (a skill that is good but not worth boosting) for a guaranteed, single point in Death Follows Close. Also, add some fire rate to the primary effect kill skill.

Hustler: Could be good, but sadly doesn’t work as one would expect and suffers from 2/3 of its skills being pretty bad. Unlike OP I think having a crit based COM would be pretty neat, exactly because all of Zane’s other skills are gun damage, meaning it scales extremely well with anything that isn’t gun damage. But the “critical hits” on the Hustler aren’t actual crits but instead post-additive fake crits, meaning it’s just an additive flat gun damage bonus that also triggers crit effects. There’s lengthy threads about it. Just change it to proper crits.
Also, change the other skills to Confident Competence (1 point) and either Trick of the Light, Donnybrook or Synchronicity.

Infiltrator: The speed is nice, the skills are alright but it’s another bad, useless source of gun damage. I feel like the gun damage when shields are low or down should be replaced by some bonus cryo damage. Maybe allow it to give additional movement speed whilst an enemy is slowed.

Seein’ Dead: Is it too good? Probably. Is it basically the only thing keeping Zane remotely comparable to other Vault Hunters? Yes. I think Seein’ Dead could be due for some changes once Zane has other options that are equally viable, but until then it’s not that big of a deal.

Shockerator: This is supposed to be the definitive Clone COM, but it really doesn’t work all that well. I like that it gives Zane access to a third action skill augment, but it’s just not that great. I’d say, possibly do away with the Shock Novas entirely, change the augment to “Which one’s real?” and change the skills to Trick of the Light, Boom Enhance (1 point) and Donnybrook. That way, you’d get a tougher Digi-Clone who is more likely to draw enemy aggro and allows you to deal bonus cryo damage against enemies (I just threw Donnybrook in there because it’s one of the only skills that actually affect Clone Damage). At that point, the name also would maybe need to change because it wouldn’t have anything to do with shock damage anymore.

Techspert: A pretty weird class mod, honestly. Its primary effect exclusively affects SNTL but all of the skills are in the green tree and they are all kind of bad. Since it’s action skill based, just like the Shockerator, let’s throw in a free Boomsday. Also, change the effect to a chance to restore all action skills, not just SNTL. Change skills to Borrowed Time, Supersonic Man and Synchronicity.

I should’ve explained why I hold that opinion better; I feel the class mod is a waste on him because with Brain Freeze you want to be hitting real Crits, which isn’t what you want to do with the Hustler since you need to land body shots to get that random Crit chance. The Crit bonus from this class mod isn’t enough to justify not making use of Brain Freeze and an Ice Breaker artifact, which are two things used in many Zane builds. I feel the concept of this class mod would’ve been better utilized by Moze.

I don’t think going CCC with infilitrator is viable in M10, I feel there just isn’t enough damage you could get with your remaining skill points when going that far down green tree.

I’ve never tried using this setup in M10 before, so I could be wrong, but I don’t think its viable.

The game has been out over a year, Mayhem 2.0 has been out almost 6 months, why are broken class mods and simple weapon balancing problems still a thing? It’s basically saying that even if Gearbox had delayed launch and focused on just fixing the game for an entire year it still would have launched buggy and broken.

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I tested it out of curiosity yesterday, and it holds up surprisingly well on M10. Obviously it’s much less effective than SD, but you can mow down enemies just fine while also maintaining permanent action skill uptime.

The damage you sacrifice by going down the green tree can be made up for with the right anoints, stat rolls on the com, and the one and only Pearl.

I think Hustler probably synergises beautifully with a Brain Freeze & Ice Breaker build. That’s exactly how I plan to use it, though I haven’t tried it myself yet.

There are two points that I think you’re under-appreciating.

Firstly, Hustler, I believe, is the only mod that can give you extra points in Brain Freeze. So already you have a better chance of freezing enemies with this mod than without it.

Secondly, using this mod doesn’t mean you should stop trying to get real crits! You still aim for crits, but in the inevitable cases where you miss and get body shots, you now have a small chance to get a crit (and proc Brain Freeze) anyway… and get a damage bonus to boot.

Without a Cryo-centric build, Hustler seems very underwhelming to me. It would amount to little more than a slight increase in your mean DPS.

But in a cryo-centric build, where Brain Freeze is key, this mod gives you not one but two boosts to Brain Freeze. First in increasing its effectiveness, and second in increasing how often you can proc it. Seems pretty promising to me.

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I see the Hustler as at best supplementary to a build centered around Brain Freeze, or any build making use of that skill. The body shot crits don’t occur often enough to get Freezes on its own, and the crit bonus the Hustler provides doesn’t effect actual crits. If the crit bonus it provided was meant for actual crits, and if its effect of providing a crit bonus would proc when hitting actual crits, it would be at least worth consideration.

But as it is right now, I see no reason to use a class mod for the chance to crit on body shots when the Seein’ Dead and even the Executor provide much more consistent damage that will make landing actual crits that much more impactful. I haven’t seen any use for it outside of facepuncher shenanigans which all the Vault Hunters can get a silly amount of damage out of.

Seems like we agree then.

Er, yes you do. We both just discussed it, and you just mentioned it in the previous paragraph: Brain Freeze. :wink:

You’re still thinking about crits in terms of damage. That’s the wrong way to think about it in this case. As someone who’s had extensive playtime with Cryo Zane, I can assure you that the impact crits have in a Brain-Freeze build is waaay more significant than any mere damage increase.

Brain Freeze is an absolute game-changer. It gives you offence and defence and crowd control all at the same time. If you know what you’re doing, you can zip around the battlefield keeping most enemies frozen almost all the time (or at the very least slowed). This gives you much greater control of the flow of the game: you can flank/attack/retreat at will, since frozen enemies can’t shoot you, and slow enemies can’t catch you. This, in turn, makes you less reliant on defensive skills from the Green tree, so you can put more points in more fun stuff.

And of course there are other benefits to Frozen enemies. With CCC they recharge your health, shields, and action skill, and with Ice Breaker they take more damage. And, most importantly of all, playing a Cryo build is just a lot of fun - certainly more so than a DPS-focused one, in my opinion. Playing a Cryo-centric build is the reason why I had a blast playing Zane at M10 for months, without once seeing the need to equip Seein’ Dead.

I equipped Seein’ Dead for the first time ever a few weeks ago, after having played Zane all year, and I haven’t been very impressed with it. It clearly gives the best DPS, but the playstyles it encourages don’t make the most of Zane’s potential, imo. I for one am glad that Hustler gives me another option.

Like I said, if you’re fixated on the damage increase Hustler gives you from crits, which is paltry indeed, you’re missing the bigger picture.

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I’m not arguing that Brain Freeze isn’t that impactful, I am saying that Hustler isn’t too impactful even for a build centered around Brain Freeze/CCC. If you’re going that far down green tree to pick up CCC, you will want to use a Seein’ Dead or Executor/Antifreeze to make up for lost damage you’ll have from either not going far down enough in blue tree to get your kill skills or not far down enough red tree to make clone useful enough.

I’m also not saying that you absolutely can’t use the Hustler at all, but that for endgame content it doesn’t hold up to even the Executor or Antifreeze.

Edit: to also add, I think you’re mistaking the strength of Brain Freeze for the strength of the Hustler class mod, Brain Freeze is super good whether or not you’re using the Hustler. Using a Hex Grenade for the drone to drop and a multi-projectile weapon on the clone will freeze all mobs quite effectively without you even needing to shoot them.

Well, I’m just one person, but my personal experience contradicts your statement. Like I wrote above, I’ve been doing just fine with Zane on solo M10 (mobs, bosses, Wotan, what have you), and until very recently, without Seein’ Dead. And as it happens, mostly without Executor or AntiFreeze too. I’ve mainly used Cold Warrior and Conductor.

I’m clearly a minority, and I’ve never understood the complaints people have about Zane. He’s always felt probably the most OP VH to me, and like I said, that’s without even using his most popular mods. I dunno, maybe I’m just a better Zane player than most, so I can get more juice by out of his playstyle without needing so much raw DPS. I wouldn’t have thought so, but it’s possible.

It’s possible we just have different ideas on what acceptable performance from some gear is, I’d be interested in seeing what you’re exact setup is for using those class mods though.

And if you’re interested, I can drop a save file for the clone/drone build I’ve been using with the Seein’ Dead, I pretty much just have to chauffeur my clone around so he can do the heavy lifting.

One problem is that Seein Dead is too good compared to all other of Zanes classmods and pretty much works with every build. (I’m not saying that it is his only viable option)
I would say buff the 25% increase to 35% but remove the on hit effect and put it on the Techspert mod.