Let's talk about CC

Battleborn Open Beta Competitive Multiplayer Discussion
#1

“Hero Shooters”, god I hate that title is is so stupid. Anyway, Battleborn is a FPMOBA, i say that because of the elements that Battleborn uses from the MOBA genre. One of the things that this game has is CC, or Crowd Control.

What is CC? Well it’s s status effect that handers your opponents ability to fuction as they intended. What basically means is this: if you use a CC you change how the opponent will engage you for a few seconds.

There are 2 types of CC: Hard and Soft. Soft CC reduces the effectiveness of the targets actions, but doesn’t stop them from doing them. These are things like Blind, Root, Cripple and Slow.

Hard CC stops the target from acting in some way. These are things like silence, knock up, stun and knock back.

Now I say all of that to say this, KNOCK UP AND KNOCK BACK SHOULDN’T INTERRUPT ULTS! It seems that Gearbox wanted to enter the MOBA playground with out learning the rules. None of ULTS I have experienced in this game have CC immunity. So I don’t know if this is by design or if it’s and over sight. But a knock up is uses to keep a target in the air and PREVENT FERTHER ACTIONS. Not cut off current ones.

Silence is largely useless due to the fact that all of your skills are probably on CD, and that is because the CD timer is ridiculous. Anywhere from 13 to 22 seconds for all of the cast, save for Oriendi, who has her skills cool each other down. But back to my point, Disarm would be more useful then scilence. This is because all of the Battleborn are ALWAYS useing their basic attack.

I liked the old version of blind, the ine where the screen went black with red in the middle and just a sliver of light there in the middle. Just my thoughts on blind.

Your tanks sould have more hard cc, and your assassin need some soft cc. But please learn then proper implementation of Crowd Control effects.

2 Likes
#2

This is Battleborn, not moba #546646. “You should make X like Y because Z game does X like Y” isn’t a very good argument.

#3

Show me how it is not, please

As for your argument, FPS, like CoD and Battlefield, have things in common. Why? Because if they are what MAKE the genre. Same with fighting games and platforming.

#4

Battleborn should have a two second time to kill because CoD does.

#5

That’s the thing, though. Battleborn is NOT a traditional MOBA. Nor is it a traditional FPS. AFAIC, it’s a previously unexplored fusion of the two, meaning that it borrows elements from both genres. Battleborn is its own thing, and has it’s own rules for what it is. I don’t think it’s a fair argument to say that these rules should be changed to be like something else when the goal all along has been to innovate, and create something different and exciting. There is not an unseen set of rules that says CC has to be done a certain way, and I certainly don’t think the game should be faulted for not mimicing something else.

#6

Last thing I want to happen to BB is being a point and shoot fest like COD is…

3 Likes
#7

Actually, in most mobas, a very valid use of cc is to interrupt powerful ultimates. Let’s take an example from League since it’s the one I’m most familiar with: if a Vel’Koz uses his ult (which is similar to Toby’s) and then he gets crowd controlled, the ult stops. This is because a.) someone probably saved a cc for his ult, which is smart, or b.) he placed himself in a position where he was vulnerable to crowd control. Granted, if his entire team is made of squishy carry champions, he can’t make good use of his ult against enemy cc, but that’s the fault of his team composition, not the way cc interacts with his ult.

Let’s take an example from Battleborn now. Those who’ve played ISIC a bit know how damaging his ult is. It pretty much gives him an Oscar Mike autoattack and a slightly weaker Toby autoattack at the same time, along with potentially a temporary shield at the cost of movespeed and his other abilities. It also lasts forever. Unless, that is, someone interrupts his ult with cc, thus effectively countering an ability which otherwise forces players to fight a small raid boss to stop ISIC’s ult.

Silences in this game are really underwhelming at the moment, but that’s just because most battleborn have no spammable abilities. Once some new characters are added to the game, I’m sure we’ll see some good use of silence.

In any case, those are just my thoughts.

2 Likes
#8

[quote=“Savage_Hyphen, post:1, topic:1349411, full:true”]But please learn then proper implementation of Crowd Control effects.
[/quote]

This sentence here is the real problem I think, the idea that what you know as crowd control is apparently the “proper” implementation of crowd control. Accept the fact that just because a game borrows mechanics/features from a specific genre doesn’t necessarily mean it will suit your notion of what the genre it borrowed them from is/should be. Try reacting to the game as its own entity and not how you would react to other games in the genre you think it belongs to. Maybe you’ll like it more, maybe you’ll like it less. Either way, you’ll at least be seeing the game as it is rather than seeing it against your preconceived notions.

#9

Agreed. If the OP thinks that ultimates are interrupted too easily, that’s a discussion we can have.

#11

Haha :joy:

#12

Um…actually, I was agreeing with @Orblivion. Apologies for being unclear.

I don’t think it is up to us to decide how CC should work. But as I said before, I don’t think that’s really the point. If you think ultimates are too easy to interrupt, I think that’s a valid topic.

#13

I’m just saying you should be a little more open-minded. MOBAs are an offshoot of the RTS genre, and I’m sure RTS fans were saying things along the lines of “please learn the proper implementation of minions”. If the devs had taken that to heart and done things the way they were “supposed” to be done, the MOBA genre wouldn’t even exist for you to use as an example of what this game is “supposed” to be.

1 Like
#14

[quote=“Savage_Hyphen, post:1, topic:1349411, full:true”]
“KNOCK UP AND KNOCK BACK SHOULDN’T INTERRUPT ULTS! It seems that Gearbox wanted to enter the MOBA playground with out learning the rules.”[/quote]
You want Battleborn to be a copy-paste-with-different-color-pallette kind of game? Where’s the freedom? Where’s the innovation? Don’t let your dreams be somebody else’s dreams; prove the strengths of your devotion and courage by lighting the spark that might grow or fade, but if it does burn bright, it will with a brilliant glow because it’s a projection of something brilliant inside you taken form, something that won’t deceive or beg regrets, something that might continue to burn brilliantly after your own flame fades, something that is proof you have lived and left a mark of indescribable strength and beauty! Let them have the right and encouragement to create such a thing!

1 Like
#15

So… I hate to say this:
I agree that Knock Up and Push Back shouldn’t interrupt ults…

BUT…

That’s because of the wording that Battleborn uses for those two effects. If they want to implement those effects that way, then simply mention in the dictionary that they interrupt abilities.

#16

This is not winning you any favours…

#17

If you are getting CCed during your Ult, you should be punished for it. You didnt bait out the CC, didnt position yourself correctly, didnt use the Ult at the right time. CC is absolutely fine in the game how it is.

If you dislike the way the game plays out so much, do not buy it on release nor spend time on the forums. If you can not say something without resorting to name calling, such as “sheep”, then you should not be discussing anything on the forums at all.

1 Like
#18

None of ULTS I have experienced in this game have CC immunity.
So I don’t know if this is by design or if it’s and over sight.

Yes and this gets weird in the case of ults such as ISIC’s ult. This is where you can see clearly that this is intentional (not that I support it), because it appears that backhand slapping someone with your German robot or your squishy witch is the ultimate answer to the ultimate AI’s ultimate. That just doesn’t make sense to me, but apparently it forces him to put his guns away.

Man Kleese really fixed him hard.

I disagree with this being a MOBA though. As more gamemodes are added I think that it will be more of its own creation, or at least w/e the hell MNC was. I think on a scale of TF2 to HotS to League/Dota to any RTS it is squarely between TF2 and HotS.

This reminds me a lot of Savage which predates this whole Hero Shooter and FPMOBA craze by a pretty big jump in time.

#19

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

yes!

As a trundle main trumpets I always save my uber-situational CC for these things.

Vel, WW, Malz, (and now) Jhin, and many more are from one of the most influential MOBAs of all time.

There are far fewer characters with truely unstoppable ults such as VI.

I think for the time being the devs are taking a very simple and moldable approach to providing counterplay to ults, which is something more experienced companies like Riot spend years working unique methods into wach unique kit.

#20

If you are trying to argue that stun is better than silence? I don’t think you will find many who would disagree.

On every other point I disagree

#21

The OP was, er, passionate.

Here’s what I took from that:

  1. We should talk about CC. Specifically, how do we feel about soft cc and hard cc in the game. Is silence>Slow>blind etc. Should that affect durations. Are there enough hard cc options. Are the current hard cc durations appropriate. Should hard cc’s be categorically more difficult to land than soft? If so, has that been achieved?

  2. Are ultis too easy to interrupt?

  3. Are CDs too long?

  4. Battleborn is similar enough to a moba for us to have these conversations and use other successful mobas as a starting point. Those questions in #1-3 are questions to be asked of every MOBA as those elements are staples of the genre, whether you’re in first person or not. That doesn’t mean you should discount a new approach to cc just because it’s not handled the same way as other mobas. It does, however, mean you should consider using past mobas as a learning experience. CC is CC, whether it’s WoW arena, LoL, Bloodline Champions, HotS, Battleborn, Paragon, Smite, etc. There are going to be similar threads between all of those things. For example, we can all agree that having a character with a 10 second aoe stun on a 10 second cooldown is likely going to be overtuned. This is pretty independent of which game it is, or how novel you think the game is.