I like a lot of the updated changes that were made for the legendaries… There are many types of builds one can create with the gear GBX placed. You don’t have to go for the att speed, att damage combo 100% of the time. I also believe many legendaries work with certain characters better than others as well. Would be great if the activation cost was lowered if you didn’t have a max roll legendary but the buffs are still pretty good so I don’t mind.
…I’ll make this short, the Loot/Mods in this game are trash compared to each of the previous Gbox titles.
But this game is nothing like any previous GBX title. The loot in this game is designed to provide minor buffs, not radical changes to the base mechanics of the characters using them.
Sounds awesome. I’d dig those changes.
This sounds cool. But would crit count as primary?
Sadly a lot of legendary effects does make pretty radical changes.
Take boots of brutes for e.g. it gives any melee character slow on melee. Yes it’s been nerfed but the idea that one phoebe can get a melee slow but another can’t really throws balance out of the window.
You can argue cost of legendary vs none but the guy with the boots will eventually still buy it just with shards in base and then start the killing spree and deny the rest of the enemy team shards from then on (talking about overgrowth)
But Phoebe has a 6 second super slow 
Nah but seriously, the boots are a joke. Okay, you got me there, I try to pretend they don’t exist because they’re just ludicrous.
Most others though I think are well balanced, some legendary tertiary effects are pretty special but aren’t they supposed to be? In general legendary items don’t drastically influence the outcome of matches, with a select few absurd exceptions like the boots. And that’s the way it should be, it’s not a shoot-and-loot game like Borderlands where characters can be built around gear, rather the other way around where you find gear to suit your character and the character is what defines the game, not the gear.
The “slow” the boots provide is nothing compared to the slow from buildables and abilities. It’s a low grade slow… It helps out, don’t get me wrong… But I won’t say it will give someone the unfair advantage because in reality, the movement was slowed but not the attack speed so the person can still fight back.
1 Like
That is true, the nerf helped a lot, but even still a guaranteed CC on any character’s basic attacks at the cost of shards seems a bit much. It’s not to the point where it disgusts me anymore, but I still don’t like using it personally.
But hey, if it’s causing an imbalance at least we can all use it to level the playing field lol, 10-man boots match now that would be… Interesting? Lol.
Sadly yes. But the problem is the slow is the one that pretty much disallows escape.
It’s like from possible to not possible and all thanks to one item that cannot be blocked or reduced.
Sadly there are many legendary that sounds nice to use but are always over shadowed by such better gears.
I mean would you limit yourself from using vow of vengeance (the gloves that add atk speed and atk damage on hit) and instead use another glove with a slightly useless 3rd effect on a melee character? Highly doubt so. It forces everyone to not think about various other legendary and just focus on these specific few.
Like how I just mentioned boots and 2 other guys note that it is indeed good at what it does. So what happened to the other legendary boots?
Not forgetting the fact that most loot are random. I honestly didn’t get good loots during the lootpocalypse. Only certain few that seems useful but I rather use a blue that has similar effects (apart from 3red effect) and cost way cheaper.
Depending on your movement speed and of course… If your teammates are paying attention… You can indeed still escape. If you are a Deande with boots and you go up against a Phoebe, el dragon, Montana, Miko, ect have skills they can just slap you with or out right damage you due to their attack speed will laugh at the face of the boots. Some characters aka Phoebe with boots, which to me makes no sense because she already has a slow won’t make much of an impact at all because you can’t stack slow on slow.
Vow of vengeance is a great legendary BUT there are fist gear (blue and purple) that give the same damage and attack speed… Or same damage on top of more damage to almost match the special effect. The extra small percentage you will be missing out from won’t make much difference IMO. I use Phoebe amongst other characters and still Play extremely well without boots or vow. There are many other gear that does the job without the simple mind set of att damage and att speed is the best. So if you like to equip many legendaries that’s fine. That’s the beauty of the game because it may take you sometime to collect shards for it but that’s the down fall. Still doesn’t make someone have an unfair advantage… Unless you are facing a new person with no gear
Whew. Lot of good replies, I’ll try to hit what I can here.
That would be a part of it, but also I think that there are other factors, like secondary stats and the power of the tertiary stat that needs to come into place when gauging what a legendary’s activation cost should be. Role strength and meta should play a role as well.
The biggest take away is that I for the life of me cannot figure out how in nine screaming hells that they went through years of development and this is the loot system they decided was the right fit. There’s so much wrong with it that I had to make the wall o text.
Finally, the changes I suggested are indeed “super duper fantasy” requests - I’m talking about major UI and gameplay changes that I think would ultimately make the game better, but definitely understand that it would probably cost too much. Hence the discussion on what would be the better way to fix it.
Yep. Giving two slots for those utility items really adds to build diversity and allows players to experiment with what actually works best in those situations.
The problem is that it gives a huge advantage to early game, oft times raising to the point of having an entire free helix for some characters. As anyone will tell you, a game is built in the early game, and having players put themselves up high enough can be nasty. Hell, one of my favorite gear pieces right now is a white 1.9/s shard producer with -heal power on it. That aint right.
True. Do you want to be the guy that gives up items useful in direct combat for that though? I understand you may take the role, if you are running in a premade or group of friends. But do you want to be that guy/gal?
Edit: As another aside, particularly regarding the H3NCH capacitor and other legendaries that reduce shard costs… well, simply put the 1800 activation cost really puts these at a strong disadvantage. I know this thread isn’t just about legendaries, but the fact that these are tiered just like attack and damage legendaries when the entire point of them is to save shards is kind of ridiculous.
While this is true, I find it hard to ignore the fact that those items, by far have the most visible impact on gameplay and character functionality. Normalizing lesser effects and reducing their impact can only have a good result on build/item diversity and can allow for more interesting item combos. I fully agree on the lesser activation costs for non perf legendaries. Or at least normalizing legendary items across the board (i mean really, its not like you’re going to keep two of the ■■■■■■■ anyway).
I think the system they chose to go with is flawed. I’ll go as far as to say some or most of the items they’ve made are fun to play with and tinkertoy with, but the system they are in limits the amount you can feasibly do that with the other, more powerful items available.
Which is a part of my aim. You don’t want gear to be the staple, for sure, but at the same time, I think you can get it in a much better state than its in already.
Thanks tho!
Thats a good debate, I think. There are plenty of stats in the game that I’ve been trying to debate about what category they fall under. For instance, I think -shield delay might be as strong or stronger than damage reduction for some characters, so it might even get the cut. A big part of that step is determining what is most important for certain class roles, whats the next important for others, and then finally what is just “omg fun utility time”. Some are obvious, others, like crit, not so much.
Edit: Had time to go out and smoke on break and thought about this question. The more I did, the more I personally think that crit damage and -shield delay would both still be secondary slot items. My reasoning is that only a few classes really rely on crit damage as a sustainable option, and it would give characters who want a more glass cannony type feel the option to spec into that to add more damage without going down a defense trait. For - shield delay, I still don’t think it should be quite as strong as flat out damage resistance, but it adds a good stacked level of defense for characters that want to go more tanky.
Great picture of an item that I think would remain at a fairly expensive activation cost as metadata was interpreted by experts. (thanks boyd crowder! Wait, that was one of his racist lines… nevermind.)
The last few posts deal with that and some more detailed discussion of pheobe, which I’ll leave to others.
And then I’ll just tag @TemetNosce cause I know this multi quote will give him a chub.
2 Likes
They made a lot of changes to it between the CTT and what we have now. I think it’s constantly been changing and evolving into what we have now. I was told that at some point the gear in the game wasn’t much different than the items in most MOBA games. They’ve changed a lot of things since the game’s early development to get it where it is now. That’s probably why a lot of the game feels not as polished as it could be because it’s taken them some time just to get the concept down.
That seems like the most accurate. With the flaws in BL2, I could usually reverse engineer the thought process behind them, because there was a logic to them. Stuff like the early bee + conference call stuff - it’s a hard thing to spot in a vacuum because legendaries were somewhat rare in BL2, and seeing that kind of synergy is rough if you don’t have both items in the loadout.
The loot system all together in BB feels very much like there were too many cooks in the kitchen. There’s a lot of conflicting opinion at play, and in the end the only thing that makes any sense to me is what you said - someone said something, then someone else changed it, then a third party changed that, then the first person said something to get it half changed back…
Crazy idea but Vyn’s Quiver giving an increased stat after reloading is a good idea but health regen isn’t it. Possibly attack damage for a short time after reloading.
1 Like
I added two quick edits to my multi quote above btw, in case someone has read them already and wants to view those responses.
I disagree, at least in the case of Incursion. Turtling is a very common strategy, deliberarely conceding mid in order to play heavy defense from behind the choke point and ambushing any who stick their head out. I’ve veen a part of it and on the other end of it, and one thing that doesn’t improve your chances of a late game push is white gear.
I don’t see how or why this question is relevant to the discussion, but to give an honest answer, no. On Capture I ALWAYS run a flawed common shard generator and wrench, due to the nature of that mode, on Meltdown I only run the generator and on Incursion I interchange between double legendary and wrench based on what the team needs. It’s not my preference, but since most players quickly lock in their characters and loadouts with no consideration for the rest of the team, I’ll make that minor sacrifice when needed.
This I very much agree with, spending shards to make more or save shards is counter intuitive. This is one reason why flawed whites have a place in this game.
I’ll cede that point on the caveat that this is a highly advanced strategy for a coordinated team, which are two things you probably can’t count on a lot unless you have a typical group that you run with in these scenarios.
Still, point taken.
The reason for the question is actually already in your answer. It’s not a fun role to be espousing, and you are sacrificing better things that you could be doing on your character to do it.
Revamping the system to include reduced levels of primary or secondary stats is a good way (to me) to increase their usage and make people want to use those items, rather than feel obligated to because they know that no one else wants to.
Double agreed as well, although in a perfect world a good Hench Wrench (oh god, im so using that till the end of my days) would have a lower activation cost to make it worth packing aorund, rather than one of the defected whites.
Now that I think on it though, a fun secondary effect for the wrenches might be “Reduces the activation costs of your other items by X%”.
I’ll have to run that one by the ole brain noggin though.
I kinda like the idea, but I feel a weekly rotating meta would aggravate less hardcore players who don’t spend time crunching numbers of the meta game. Plus people would feel compelled to only play certain characters favored by the item rotations.
Instead, why not just hard limit the number of ledgendaries per loadout?
This is true, but in a team-oriented game not every tactic will be preferable to all players and sometimes one has to make the sacrifice. One example is healing. Randoms seldom pick the healer, they’re mostly quick to lock in their main and even the ones who wait out their picks seldom pick a healer anyway, they’re just looking for a balance between range/AoE/CC. But I play Ambra and enjoy the hrck out of her, so that’s cool with me. Also, 1) serioualy who wants to play Miko? And, 2) how often do random Mikos just go full combat and not heal? UGH.
I guess we’re at an impasse on this one.
That would kick arse! Still, if it were super cheap that is. It wouldn’t work for me personally as I already have loadouts for my characters that wouldn’t include that item, but for those crazy bastards out there who run triple legendary loadouts or double and an epic this might come in handy. Though I doubt players with expensive loadouts and no shard generator would benefit from -buildable cost as they’re obviously not building. It would need an entire rework with more commonly desired stats.
Also, I agree with you on an earlier point, attack speed and damage are far from the best, or only useful, stats in the game. They’re just the easiest to formulate a build around, but with great experience comes great diversity in gear. Or something.
1 Like