Level 65 level cap and how an extra skill tree relates to that

Raising the cap was the dumb move. At least, without there being a way to raise your gear along with it. If you look at Destiny’s system, they raise the light level periodically but nobody minds because they can level up important gear along the way. I think gearbox was attempting to emulate that system but they did it poorly. Without the the gear raising options, every piece of gear is temporary and meaningless, even at the level cap. That destroys any incentive to farm when you know a new level cap is on the way.

If you want to make legendaries meaningful, you have to have a full system for it, like diablo 3 or destiny 2 does. Legendaries in diablo 3 especially.

At the very least let me trash 10 legendaries to make a custom one and/or change the anointment of another. Something. Anything more than what we have.

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full disclosure I’m slightly out of the loop having dropped this game half a year ago. But more skill points does not ruin diversity, as someone above said more skill points means more options and the weapons you use is a huge part of that diversity.

I went back to borderlands 2 on ps3 and am having more fun than ever, and at level 72 with 68 skill points to work with, no one has a build like mine.

So the idea that more skill points would be the thing that ruins build diversity and not all the other issues is silly/foolish.

And sidenote leveling weapons is a horrible idea for this series (no one would farm they’d just level up old “god rolls”), and would be a non-issue if drop rate were ever done correctly.

As far as the new skill tree my opinion is that if things are somewhat the same as I last saw them, and certain characters can’t do damage unless specced a specific way and using certain class mods, then not giving more skill points with a new tree would be a detriment to diversity as no one would give up what works just for novelty.

also since I’ll probably get hate for this, (that I will never see as I’ll leave the forums again after this) why not take it further I greatly enjoy the challenge of the peak, and think OP levels once action skills were scaled was the best thing to happen to the game, and that borderlands 2 had perfect scaling.

Each game mode forced you to grow and adapt more mechanics to your advantage to overcome the odds and in that game you are far from lacking in options to play around with. OP8 is an absolute blast after the learning curve.

I keep seeing this but it completely misses my point. Many players have no incentive to farm right now for god rolls because the level cap isn’t at the highest point yet. My friend that played the entire borderlands series over again with me leading up to Borderlands 3 stopped playing about a month in because he wanted to wait for the final level cap. Why should it make a difference whether we got a god roll drop now or after the final level cap. (it’s not like leveling up actually takes that much time anyhow). Give us a way to level up our god roll drops. Give us something to recycle old gear into besides regular cash. And give us a way to reroll or level up stuff. Or craft or something.

Maybe this game wont be anymore fun for me until it is more static (at least in the level cap). In my replays of BL1 and BL2, for example. I don’t bother serious loot farming until the level cap. I try to get some decent gear along the way, so I can reach the level cap and beat the bad guys along the way.

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Everything is relative. I’ll use an extreme example to demonstrate.
If you have 100 skill points possible on a build are given 99 points to allocate. What diversity are you left with? None.
That’s pretty what you would end up with if you could unlock 3 out of 4 capstones. The vast majority of builds would be made up of the same “must have” skills and the same two capstones. Game balance would then have to be built around those same op build leaving very little possibility for those of us who enjoy not optimal builds.

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Kind of true if you consider a build is made up of skill point allocation alone.
But to quote @Derch „builds are skills, gear and weapons as well as playstyle“.
So we could be specced the same and still have different builds and playstyles.
I see more options in having more skill points. Some see more limitations. All perspective, all opinion. :wink:

You can stop tagging Derch with me.
I don’t think there’s a single Derch video I didn’t watch. He is the primary reason I kept playing when I hit the UVHM wall. The one I’ve learn the most from.
Wasn’t for him. I most probably wouldn’t be playing Borderlands games today.

If you did watched any of his vid you know how synergie is important. Of course skill points are not the only thing that make a build. But it’s a freaking big part of it when it come to synergie and the subject of the thread title.

If all skill tree builds are more or less the same. Than the gear will be too. They are inter connected.

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To the 3. question i said insta no. I’m such a boomer recently. What’s wrong me…
Anyway, they always increased the level. Now why would be this different? My question is what will be the max level.
I have problem with the lvl 35 quest cap at dlc-s. I hope they redesign it. Main questline should be scaleable to 50 at least too.

It would be different because the level cap will probably stay at 65.
Simply because they raised it up (to an eventual cap) in the past doesn’t mean they have to keep raising it indefinitely.

Because level cap increase always been free so far in BL3 and the extra skill tree dlc won’t be.

I am not a native speaker so if I made it sound I am more experienced and sounded condescending I am sorry.
I didn’t tag Derch in order to show you something but just because I hope he gets back.
I also watched everyone of his videos. And especially the Melee Maya one shows that more skill trees, say past 50, 61, 72 allow for a build that wasn’t possible on lower level caps.
That’s why I believe more levels are not a bad thing per se. Of course, the meta will not be shaken by more levels and skill points. But options that cannot be chosen today may open up with more skill points.

Again, I didn’t want to spark anything here. Just my view of things.

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I’m not a native speaker either so I understand that. :slight_smile:

Of course more points would allow for things that are not possible now. With an entire new tree there could be room for more points. I think 15 would be too many thou. At least right now.
It too 7(?) year for BL2 to go from 72 to 80. So maybe later?.

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all my answers are no that is remarkable

To the people claiming lack of diversity:

In terms of capstones, maybe. But how you get to those capstones may differ, depending on what a player may want to try out. This is why skills have always been the most important in terms of longevity. They are what make diversity in the endgame. If too many of the skills are useless, then the developers have failed in that regard.

This right here. If it’s going to take dozens of hours to get a (near) perfect drop, why should it be made obsolete by some arbitrary level cap raises. All that it’s doing is removing the incentive to farm anything in the first place until the game has reached a set in stone level cap. Not being able to level up your gear just makes it so that I don’t want to go farm for it in the first place.

The part about drop rates is kinda true, yes, but drop rates are not done correctly. Even if they were done correctly then what is the downside of being able to level gear up instead of refarming it?

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I’m hoping the new coms have more than 5 skill point boosts.

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Surely you see the logical limitation of this statement though.

Imagine a hypothetical situation where Gearbox gives us enough points to max out every single skill (I don’t know exactly how much it would be, but let’s call it 150 skill points). Clearly, this would be an inarguable blow to build diversity, because everyone would have exactly the same skills. Sure, they could still have wildly different gear, but gear’s only half the story.

And if 150 points would be catastrophic for build diversity, then it stands to reason that 140 points would be almost catastrophic. Not quite as uniform, but still everyone would have very similar builds.

Now let’s go to the other extreme. Imagine that everyone only had 2 skill points. This would also be catastrophic for build diversity, because no one would have enough points to construct a meaningful build sufficiently different from anyone else’s. Again, everyone would have almost the same skills (or lack of them).

So it stands to reason that the sweet spot lies somewhere in between: far away from 150, and far away from 2. Where exactly this sweet spot is, and how wide it is, is a matter for debate. But as I hope my above examples illustrate, that debate has to rest on more than just “more skills will never hurt” or “more skills will always hurt” statements.

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Play at mayhem 1 or higher (after beating the game) and quest levels dont matter. It all scales to you at that point.

At a certain threshold, too many skill points is a bad thing for build diversity and the game.

The sweet spot probably around halfway. But there is more to consider. Because capstones are highly meaningful in Borderlands games. So, arguably we are better around level 65 than 80+. 2 capstones plus some extra points will be enough to get half of the capstones and some of another skill tree or to help fill out one you’re in. Plus, as I said many times already, I think gearbox does damage to the endgame fans incentives when they raise the cap, so they might as well make it the final level cap.

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I just want to know NOW if they plan to ever increase the cap and potentially when.

For example, “no we dont plan to ever increase the cap” or “we might change it 5 years from now” or “we might change it in 6 to 12 months” or “we will change it in Spring 2021”.

I don’t understand why people keep saying more skill points reduces build diversity when build diversity is completely in the players control. If you want to use a different build then use a different build. Gbx isn’t making you use the “meta” build. It’s not like this game has pvp, or any sort of ladder where you compete with other players.

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They already did that. For the foreseeable future it’s not increasing.

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