Level Cap Poll - yes / no/ hybrid

Thought we could use a 3rd option for this poll…

  • Yes - level cap increase
  • No- keep cap at 52
  • Hybrid - increase max skill points , but keep level cap 50

0 voters

1 Like

“No- keep cap at 52”

It already went up?! :smiley:

How about a 4th option: add UVHM with lvl increase up to say 70. AND keep TVHM at 50 with up to 10 extra/hybrid skill points.

This accommodates TVHM players to taste the new skill trees. Want more skill points for sick builds? Play UVHM.

… Now that I’ve typed this out I can see all sorts of issues with it, but I’ll leave it for discussion’s sake.

1 Like

that’s the enemys levels sorry :frowning:

Ummm why are you apologizing I made this topic.l and poll haha

Also 52 was a typo :frowning:

3 Likes

Definitely increase the cap.

A lot of MMO communities, especially for Korean MMOs which are notoriously grindy, fall into the mindset of “we don’t want new content because we don’t want to farm our gear again”. Not that I’m not sympathetic because it does take a while, but given the choice between getting to keep my gear but stagnating, and being able to progress but needing to gear up again, I’ll take the latter any day. Guns stay the same, but more skills can change everything. Especially since we aren’t getting new characters, we are going to need those new levels and skill trees to keep the game fresh.

And honestly, I don’t see how the hybrid option would help. If/ when they do add the 4th skill tree, how would you fill it out without the extra points? How many skill points would you need per level to decently fill out the trees? Considering that we have 48 right now, and we get another 10 from level cap increase, you’d need to get 1.2 points per level to get the same number of skill points by level 50. The only way to accomplish that would be if certain levels gave you more skill points than others, which would make progression extremely uneven and just feel bad for leveling.

2 Likes

I’d go for the level cap increase. I enjoy progression via character levels and farming new stuff. The only thing I don’t want is UVHM like it was in BL2. Instead I’d prefer it as a toggleable modifier (similar to Mayhem) where we can either continue playing our current playthrough or reset it to get the full experience.

Well, that’s a classic example of false dilemma or false choice. The options you’ve provided indeed force you to choose the latter.

So adding extra levels means progress for you but adding 4th skill tree without the level cap raise is not a progress for you? Care to explain?

How is a level cap increase from 50 to 80 differ from 20 to 50? Yes, you get the more skill points to allocate and have more build flexibility at level 80 vs level 50.

So it’s really the increase in skill points and not the level cap raise that we should be asking for.

Without the addition of 4th skill tree or additional skills, at level 80, most builds will eventually have similar skill allocation. It is more challenging to allocate 50 skill points than 80 skill points (assuming we get 50 right now). It presents more challenges and compromises and you can’t be a jack of all trades (maybe if you glitch).

So if we just go straight to level cap increase. You refarm the same gear you have right now. How’s that different. You end up with the same loadout. Can we call that progression?

We get 48 right now, two shy of getting that second capstone.

I think progression may mean something different to other people. It sounds like a few folks want no level raises, but they still want the skill points somehow like via a quest or whatever, chiefly because they don’t want to re-farm their gear. And if that’s what they call progression than that’s all fine for them.

Others, myself included, thoroughly enjoy level cap raises. Though I would much rather they only do one this time around. New levels means the enemies are getting stronger as well to accommodate the increase in skill points. Plus, in a game based entirely on looting as much as possible, farming for gear at the new cap just means I get to keep playing the game for longer!

3 Likes

I don’t want to see a level cap increase because I don’t think I want to refarm a bunch of stuff (and a lot of others feel the same I’m sure!) Rather than increase the level cap, perhaps extra skill points could be earned with Guardian Rank tokens. Redeem a token for a skill point (instead of a perk), up to a certain limit. But this would work better if a fourth skill tree is indeed added… too many skill points in the three existing trees runs the risk of making all skill tree builds look kinda samey like how they ended up in TPS.

Say, up to 20-25 extra skill points if there’s a fourth tree, up to 5 if not.

1 Like

Enemies will only be stronger at a certain point but once you’ve maxed out your gear/build again, then you end up at the same state right now (in terms of the ratio of enemy difficulty). From what I understand from your post is that the current difficulty is no longer challenging to you and hence a level cap raise would make enemies challenging again. But what happens when you reach the point where they aren’t challenging anymore? Do we raise the level cap again? I guess some people find this process of repetition enjoyable. I’ve played a lot of games with this kind of process. I just don’t find it a convincing argument or maybe it’s one of those preference thing like some people like vegetables and others dont.

That’s not what I’m saying. There’s always going to be that point where you tweak your builds enough so you can steamroll content.

What I’m saying is there’s going to be a bigger difference between that gap of enemy difficulty and player OP-ness if we don’t see levels with the skill points. If we got skill points without actually leveling up ourselves, and subsequently the enemies, then the there will be a huge gap between our power and enemies’ power.

I’ve always reached that point in each borderlands game where I absolutely annihilate trash and even most bosses. Level cap raises means I gotta put in the effort to get back up to where I was and deal with not having the top tier gear I had before (until I farm again).

If I recall, didnt BL2 cap enemies at 52 in TVHM? So the people who don’t want a level cap raise can just stay playing TVHM in BL3 if it works the same, right? Also considering that put in UVHM, which doesn’t seem likely.

1 Like

Thats where the Mayhem 2.0 or UVHM etc would come into the picture. You really don’t have to raise the “level cap” or make current weapons obsolete to get all these things you want. So many people are so stuck in an archaic way of thinking about this subject.

Say you raise the level cap. It’s going to take me 1 day of Slaughter Shaft to get there. So now I’m at the new cap and have all these new skill points. Great. But now every single piece of gear I’ve collected is useless. Not a great feeling. So yeah now I have to start all over farming gear, some people say well thats more longevity, but I say well I wasn’t done farming in the first place! A level cap raise right now and even this year would be a dumb mistake imo and I promise it would chase away a lot more people then it pleases.

2 Likes

You mean mayhem 2.0 or UVHM would fix that?

Also, I’m really not falling for the archaic argument. I think a better argument would be that this is an entirely different genre of the games that utilize regular level cap raises (i.e. mmos).

I was under the assumption that if GB adds more skill points without a level cap raise is they will also introduce a mechanism to make the enemies even harder: M5, M6 etc?

I was also under the assumption that when we are asking for a level cap raise or skill points raise GB isn’t releasing those as standalone updates but there will be corresponding updates to make the content more challenging. In both cases we can apply your argument. If they raise the levels but not the enemies’ level then we end up too easy content. When I mentioned adding more skill points instead, I wasn’t implying that the PvE difficulty should remain the same.

1 Like

I use the archaic argument and not your other one because people are basing the argument off of past experience with previous Borderlands games, not from MMO’s.

My argument is that you can do a system that gives new skill points and even trees and makes enemies harder to utilize that and not have to make our gear obsolete. People don’t seem to understand that concept based on previous experience telling them they need to ‘raise level cap’ for that to happen. My sub-argument is that farming is never-ending in this game so I don’t need my gear to be made obsolete to make me do more of it.

1 Like

Yeah I gathered that. I think borderlands incorporating a level cap raise in the first place, like BL1, was a weird thing to do. But after three games of the same thing, I got used to it and actually love it.

I think it’s a bit of a mixed bag, though, where everybody wants something different. And that’s fine. I don’t look at a level cap raise and think “damn, my gear is obsolete and now I wasted X hours of my life.” I think “well, that ■■■■ was fun AF. Let’s run it again!” Lol

5 Likes

Awwh you can’t say “sheet”

2 Likes

I am in favor of increasing the level limit, but I am sure that many players will abandon the game. Before leveling up, start the fourth skill tree and M2.0. Only the points now, will not bring many varieties of constructions for the characters. we also need chandeliers on some legendary weapons. 90% of the characters’ best weapons are the same! There is no variation … maggie, brainstormer, night hawkin, etc … the other 100 legendary weapons are useless in the greatest difficulties. The game needs variety before leveling up.