Long-Term fix suggestions for Leave No Trace

I posted a thread on reddit here detailing many suggestions for Leave No Trace. With the most recent hotfix (which was a pretty damn good change), they really are listening. As such, I am posting a whole bunch of other suggestions which involve some coding.

I’m a fl4k main, and LNT enables so many builds with fl4k which other characters cannot utilize effectively. Maggie, Torgue Shotguns, Hellwalker, kinda Crossroads, etc.

Moze has the most diverse set of guns she can use: anything Torgue or splash damage, anything with a mag size over 30 including Shredifier and so much Vladof, and incendiary guns. Amara is the best with the second largest variety of guns, including the ASMD, Lob, and Mind-Killer (elemental guns) and the Psycho Stabber or Face-Puncher (melee guns). Zane exclusively has Cryo guns which synergize well with him.

But Fl4k… without leave no trace, has absolutely nothing except does slightly better with guns which buff crit damage like the Unforgiven or some Jakob’s guns. With the original LNT on the other hand, he has Mashers, any sort of shotgun, a bit better with the Lyuda, and any multi pellet gun; still not as good at rapid fire guns as Moze even if every shot crits, but any multi pellet gun is king for him. Hell, even the Lucian / Rowan / King / Queen Calls are as good on him as they are anybody, only a teeny bit better on fl4k but not enough for him to dominate them.


People have written enough about this, so here’s some math about the original implementation, with some key points:

  1. With single-pellet guns, the original LNT was very well balanced
  2. With multi-pellet guns, the original LNT was OP. It was required for any OP build of fl4k, and outshined the rest of his skill trees by far.
Magazine Multiplier
%Ammo \ #Pellets 1 2 3 5 8 18
0.12 1.136364 1.291322 1.467412 1.894901 2.780601 9.984168
0.24 1.315789 1.731302 2.278029 3.943956 8.984445 139.7511
0.36 1.5625 2.441406 3.814697 9.313226 35.52714 3081.488
0.48 1.923077 3.698225 7.111971 26.30167 187.0567 129401.7
0.6 2.5 6.25 15.625 97.65625 1525.879 14551915
0.72 3.571429 12.7551 45.55394 581.0451 26468.89 8.94E+09

In the above chart, we see the expected magazine size for guns where every pellet crits under the original implementation. While the values were clearly intentional for low pellet guns (3 points means x1.56 magazine on average), for higher pellet guns (x9 magazine for an 8 pellet shotty) it’s a bit much. Below are some suggestions that would equalize LNT for all guns, if desired:

  1. Leave it alone - it’s early game, skills for Zane / Amara aren’t even functional yet, so how the hell do they know how to balance anything? We don’t even have raid bosses yet ffs.
  2. Make your crits give a chance to make your next shot fired not consume ammo - Now all guns are exactly equal; no matter how many times you crit, your next shot still only has an X% chance of not consuming ammo. No need for more pellets, etc. Now with a Hellwalker, for example, you shoot the enemy (crit), reload, then fire again. You have a chance to not consume ammo, yay, so you get to shoot twice that magazine, but wait, you hit a crit, so now you get to shoot again, on average getting 3 shots per magazine, huzzah! Literally the easiest fix.
  3. Make multiple crits count as one for the skill - This one is super easy. Instead of recalculating whether a shot will give ammo, only check upon the first crit after a trigger pull. Best suggestion yet (credit /u/Atuaguidesme)
  4. Nerf the scaling of the skill - make it so that it peaks at 36% with the best class mod, and 24% without it. Then it still functions, and while still absurdly strong it doesn’t gut the skill.
  5. Give it the bl2 Bee treatment - Divide the success rate by the square root of the number of listed pellets on the item card, to make the magazine size increases equivalent regardless of pellets. If you just divide by number of pellets, then it nerfs too hard. Obviously, with unlisted pellets, this won’t properly function, looking at you Lyuda.
  6. Disable it during Fade Away - boom, success rate now relies on skill, it defeats the whole purpose of the synergy with Crit Fl4k, but it still nerfs Fl4k’s boss killing ability without dramatically worsening his mobbing (not like we have raid bosses yet lmfao).
  7. Reduce its rate during Fade Away - don’t need to outright disable, but since Fade Away makes crits very easy, just lower the chance during Fade Away. (credit /u/TrainerBlack2)
  8. Nerf Geurillas in the Mist - oh wait, they already did this. Again, if Fl4k is killing bosses too easily, maybe nerf GitM by removing the “every shot a crit” thing without gutting the time, but keeping the crit multiplier - allows for safety in invisibility while forcing one to aim. Maybe just remove GitM entirely from the game if it was so “unintentional”.
  9. Change the skill to be a magazine size increase - voila. Boring AF, doesn’t synergize with crits, but accomplishes the same thing on average.
  10. Make it identical to Moze’s Redistribution - make crits trigger a rapid ammo regeneration over time, so shooting more crits just refreshes the duration. This allows for literally any ammo regen rate the devs want, while again keeping multi pellet guns on the same level as single pellet guns. In fact, instead of % of mag size, it could be a straight bullets/second.
  11. Make it a higher tier skill - It’s a strong skill, move it up on the tree; something so fundamental to a build shouldn’t be so easily obtained (credit /u/Game25900)
  12. Lower the chances, buff Tw0 F4ng - Make LNT be designed for multi-pellet guns, and buff Tw0 F4ng to allow single pellet guns more chances to proc crits. (credit /u/Gokiburi-Sensei)
  13. Change the skill: Lower the base chances, increase over time - Make LNT give very low chances which ramp up over time. If they want the skill to work with snipers, make it so waiting 2 seconds increases the chance to 100% on crit, with more points in LNT decreasing the cooldown. Hell, make the base rate be only 5% or 0% even which increases up until it procs. (credit /u/Atuaguidesme)
  14. Lower base chances, buff rate with snipers - If it’s meant for snipers, then literally just buff it for snipers and nerf it for every other gun (credit /u/TrainerBlack2)
  15. Reduce the delay to 0.1s for proc - If the goal is to stop multi-pellet guns, well, every bullet will hit within a tenth of a second. Even to 0.05 would work without gutting the skill. (credit /u/mache612)

The problem with Leave No Trace, fundamentally, is that it outshines every other skill on Fl4k’s trees. There is no other build which can match the pure dps boost never reloading a Masher gives, or even just a 60% magazine size increase can give. The Green Tree gives some good damage, but the entirety of the Blue Tree is largely useless. Amara and Moze have several viable OP builds, Zane has one skill (the Cryo skill) which makes him okay, and Fl4k exclusively has crits. With the new hotfix, Fl4k also has some decent Rakk stuff which starts putting it on par with Fade Away, but it still doesn’t increase skill build diversity.

His survivability and mobbing do not come remotely close to Amara or Moze, but he can kill any boss reasonably quickly. Keep it that way.