[Lore] Caldarius' lore makes no sense!

Caldarius’ lore contradicts itself all over the damn place!

One of them explains how he was never going to be granted Sustainment due to him not being a Jennerit, and yet he WAS Sustained at some point, and then he was thrown into jail for being a “hero to the people”.

Why was he Sustained if he was someone they wanted locked away? His timeline on this is a MESS and makes no sense!

He was an arena champion, being born as a “slave”. His victory and arrogance upon demanding Sustainment got him forcibly drafted into the Jennerit military for over 100 years, after which he demanded Sustainment again!

Then there’s a large gap in his timeline when apparently he got Sustained… somehow, and then sometime AFTER he was Sustained, he was thrown into jail for being a “Hero to the People”.

When was he possibly in good enough graces with the Jennerit pure bloods to get Sustained, and why was he thrown into jail AFTER he was Sustained, when the whole “hero to the people” thing happened during his arena fights and during the 100 years he was in military service…

Um. He was sustained by Lenore, and thrown into jail by Rendain after he rose to power. What’s so complicated about it?

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He was Sustained because he was a hero to the people, and imprisoned because he was a hero to the people. A lowborn soldier who rose through the ranks of an elitist empire and was punished for having a voice bigger than his birthright, it’s actually a really good story.

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It’s what happens when someone overthrows an empire they kill and or imprison heroes of the people because they are the greatest threat to the new ruler just like rendain

Silf knows what’s up

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He’s asked for sustainment twice, the first time in the pits and he was punished for it, forced to be a shock trooper. The second time he was sustained but imprisoned. The second time he asked for sustainment he was already a hero to the people.

I was under the impression that you don’t mess with a guy with a shock trooper suit the second time he asks for sustainment, and they used it to lure him, but I kinda like the idea that he was imprisoned after Rendain took over as said above.

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You got this information from where, exactly? His lores do not mention sh*t, and neither does the story missions.

Also from what they HAVE told us about Jennerit Sustainment, they need to be at the Heliophage for the ritual, and then they MUST remain in the same solar system as the Heliophage (and by extension the Jennerit homeworld) forever to keep their immortality.

…And as that is true, if Rendain wanted to get rid of him (and was actually able to capture him), he could have just killed him right there and then, or sent him to another system where he would die of old age, which would be MUCH crueler as it would see him lose what he had so long sought.

The background, including some stuff from Gearbox, seems to indicate that the supposed reward for being the undisputed champion of the Pits was Sustainment. Had to be some carrot on the string for the little gladiators.

But I’m guessing (and it’s just a guess!) that no one actually thought someone like Caldarius would come along and force the Jennerit to make good on their reward.

So Caldarius wins it all, demands the Sustainment reward he was promised, and is shipped off to the military instead to get him out of sight and hopefully get him killed.

Instead, he becomes a war hero and basically spends 100 years kicking ass and taking names.

So when he comes home, the crowds are cheering for him and not Rendain or the Empress. He demands Sustainment again and is too popular to ignore/refuse.

But it’s very heavily implied that right after he was Sustained, he was chucked in jail by Rendain, probably because he was too much of a Caesar and a threat to the ruling power structure.

Toss someone immortal in solitary confinement for another century or so, and let the mind do to itself what the army couldn’t. Only, while Caldarius went batshit insane, he still kept a goal which seems to have helped him remain somewhat functional in the present.

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Okay, so I remember hearing a dev on stream laugh a little at the actual identity of cal-the man behind the mask. There’s lore about suits fitted for 18 inch beings. What do yal make of this?

Uhhhh maybe he´s tiny, like the “Man-in-Black” alien in a human suit! :smiley:

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Ya it’s kinda weird how pre-release descriptions of Caldarius say he won his Sustainment in the fighting pits, but that’s not actually the case in the full game and when he got his Sustainment is completely glossed over.

Ikr? That’s why I brought this up - one of his lores says that no non-Jenerrit has EVER been granted sustainment, and it’s basically just a lie.

He was a Kemessian fighter in the Jennerit fighting pits who won the ultimate prize - sustainment, but b/c he wasn’t Jennerit the elites wanted to deny it to him. This was during one of many wars, so they enlisted him into the military basically saying do this & you will be sustained like we promised, expecting him to fail, but he succeeded beyond their wildest expectations, becoming a legendary hero of the common people w/ his loyalty to the Jennerit proven beyond any doubt, so they had to follow through.

Thereafter, Rendain had his coup & took control of the Jennerit, & imprisoned him simply b/c he was popular w/ the people (possibly b/c of Attikus leading the thrall in rebellion), then basically after years of imprisonment we find him & free him, shortly after Deande defects to the Battleborn.

@mediumvillain:

That’s about the only “timetable” explanation that would make any sense. However, there are more “gaps” due to poorly explained and inconsistent information, such as:


I was under the impression Rendain betrayed everyone fairly recently. Far too many characters make personal references to his betrayal, such as Mellka in the Prologue. Unless her race is EXTREMELY long lived too (like Galilea’s), it just does not add up.

We know from Galilea’s lore that Ambra was sustained a little over 300 years ago, and references from that time refer to a “peace” between the Eldrid and the Jenerrit. It’s even hinted at that Rath forged Galilea’s greatsword, and there are more references to cooperation from this time period, at least when it came to the Varelsi (I mean, the Eldrid were always trying to stop the Jenerrit’s Sustainment Engine lol).

Caldarius constantly mentions being imprisoned for “centuries”, which cannot mean less than 2 (by definition lol). So that would have to mean that both Rendain’s rise to power and Caldarious’ imprisonment were less than 300 years ago, and also that Mellka’s race lives an absurdly long time as well…

It’s been going on for a long, long time. The Jennerit were at war w/ others, including the Eldrid, long before the fight against the Varelsi & Rendain’s betrayal, which both occurred long ago at different times (the major players in the Jennerit are Sustained, Eldrid like Galilea - originally the same race as Alani - are long-lived), then the Varelsi came, and have been darkening star after star for centuries. Most of Ghalt’s military career w/ the UPR was from fighting off Varelsi darkenings, for example. There is an actual dated timeline, but you’d probably have to put together all the lore from most of the characters to figure it all out. Looking at Attikus lore now, the first known darkening occurred in the year 18500, the current year in the game is 19958.

The stuff about Galilea is b/c she was an Eldrid agent who went undercover in the same sisterhood as Ambra to learn the secrets of Sustainment (and ultimately end the process), so she was an Eldrid & a Jennerit before becoming a UPR agent, & this is the source of the Galilea-Ambra rivalry. The Jennerit apparently wiped out or drained the seas of the home planet of Galilea & Alani long ago, before ending the war w/ some kind of peace accords. They also destroyed Thorn’s world I believe, but I haven’t done her lore. Anyway, this is why most of the Eldrid hate the Jennerit & don’t wanna work w/ them. Mellka’s lore includes her warning Ghalt against trusting Deande prior to the events of the prologue.

I think part of the confusion w/ Caldarius is that he had escaped or been released at some point, long enough to fight for Penarch in the battle for the next-to-last star, and when we find him in-game they’re attempting to recapture him.

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Where do you find all this lore? Is there somewhere I can just read it all and learn their stories?

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Hokay. So.

The current year, based on Deande’s lore (after the fall of Rendain and the destruction of the Heliophage) is 19958.

Caldarius was fighting in the pits circa 19742 (so approximately 215 years ago), and that appears to be the year he “won” and should have been granted Sustainment. Instead, he was sent off to join the 999th Shock Troopers and fight on the front lines.

Caldarius’ lore indicates that he fought for a “century” before coming home a hero. That would put him to about 19850ish. And then it is implied he was immediately Sustained and thrown in jail. So he’s been in jail about another 100 years, but because he’s been in solitary confinement and lost his mind, he doesn’t actually know how long it’s been. Just that he wants to kill Rendain.

Atticus’ lore has a bunch more timelines.

The Second Battle of Jennar (when Rendain betrayed his allies) was 19954. So 4 years in the past.

The first Thrall Rebellion was in the same year. The Jennar Civil War started the year following. The 2nd Thrall Rebellion started in 19957 (so 1 year before the game), and that is when Deande broke Caldarius out of prison (he was broken out, per Rath’s lore, to assist with the 2nd Rebellion).

About a month after the 2nd Thrall Rebellion, Penarch was darkened. According to Ghalt’s lore, Caldarius was present and kicked major ass at the Battle of Penarch. He was forced to flee before Penarch was Darkened because his suit was basically out of power.

So The Renegade picks up in the current year, after Caldarius has been out of commission for months trying to find a way to recharge his suit.

Does that help clear up the timeline?

Edit: Deande’s lore indicates that the Empress suspected something was up with Rendain as far back as 18802, and she was put in close with him as a spy long before his betrayal. And that she helped advise him in “the Caldarius Affair” (but not what she advised). So Rendain granting Sustainment and throwing him in jail was totally reasonable if he was afraid of other excessively-powerful individuals challenging him.

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A like for the accuracy. And her advisement is probably what got him sustained - her trying to keep him from killing Caldy, and convincing Rendain that it’s worse than death. Win win! Except for Rendain.
I personally like the gaps, it avoids plot holes, keeps it interesting, and leads to a lot of introspection.

Forgot to throw in, Gali is not an eldrid. She’s something else, can’t remember what exactly right now though. It’s mentioned in her lore. Her race was famous for being Arbiters of Being - badass anti-Jennerit warriors who lived and fought similar to the Sustained.
And the implication in caldy’s lore, on a different note, is that he is, in fact, 18 inches tall. They mention the size, then talk about how it’s “Common for them to impress Kemessians into their service, particularly after the takeover of their planet,” or some such. Which makes him just that much more badass.
Oh, and apparently he doesn’t sound the way he does because of his suit - considering he didn’t have his suit in prison, and his audiolog thing still had his voice exactly the same. Either that, or it was a minor mistake on behalf of the developers.

There are a couple hints about his size.

Hylis says he’s going to take Caldarius back to Tempest in a shoe box.

And then, as you said, Assault Frames are noted in Caldarius’ lore as being modified to suit a wide variety of pilots, including 18" tall ones (with a note that Kemessians have been pressed into service).

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This thread has been granted sustainment! Does anyone know what a Kemessian actually is?