M4 needs to be more rewarding

Before anything else I should make it clear that this is NOT another complaint about the difficulty. In fact, even with my sub-par gear plus loaded dice, I can handle everything except anointeds and bosses. I imagine I could even handle the rest if by some miracle I could actually get my desired gear.

The point I want to make is that when the time consumption of fights is multiplied by 8-10, a measly 30% boost to loot over M3 isn’t nearly big enough. (assuming the displayed numbers are even accurate)

Not to mention that the exp multiplier is actually drastically lower than offline M3. (also currency but who cares)


For what i know the reward sistem in M4 is bugged, it should give you way more legendaries and anointed stuff but for what people have been saying M3 drops way more than 4

I’m only doing it for the M4 exclusives then I’m back to farming M3.

there should be no character, weapon or echo skins in the M4 legendary drop pools


Agreed if M4 is just for people who want difficulty then legendaries shouldn’t be locked behind a optional mode


First off, I don’t want to give the impression that I’m criticizing your performance in M4. This is just my rationale behind why M4 drop rates suck or aren’t as good as they should be. I agree that they should be better, but not because it’s M4.

As I play through M4, I’ve realized that it’s not much more difficult than M3. For me, M4 is the equivalent of M3 with 2-3 negative modifiers affecting your damage. Those penalties are baked into the shield/armor/health increases. The trade off is that M4 enemies don’t hit very hard, because there are less modifiers that can enhance their damage.

When a player is properly geared with the right parts and anointments, he/she should be able to play M3 with negative modifiers (those that affect your damage) with ease, and by extension, M4. It’s just that M3’s difficulty varies a lot and players have this assumption that they should be able to handle M4 because they can handle M3. But M4 doesn’t have any safety nets to boost their damage.

M4 drop rates are technically better than M3’s, but here’s the problem. Drop rates over the course of the game’s release have been nerfed repeatedly, but they’ll keep adding new items and anointments to the loot pool. So, making the M4’s drop rates slightly better than M3’s already meager drop rates, while diluting them even further, does nothing to meet players’ expectations.

In short, anointed legendaries and new legendary COMs (not by a whole lot) drop rates need to be increased across the board to account for variety (COM skill configurations, COM stats, anointments, weapon parts, elements, etc…). The only drop rates that I find reasonable in M4 are vanilla legendary COMs and artifacts. Everything else feels like a test of patience.


Not sure why you started this comment as though you where disagreeing even though just about everything you’re saying is in line with my original post but worded differently. I mean, unless it wasn’t directed at me.

The only thing I have to question is the part about the enemies not hitting as hard. If that’s the case It’s too small a difference for me to notice in the middle of a gunfight. The only difference I have noticed to my general survivability is that enemies being around longer gives them more opportunities for a killing blow. This typically manifests in fights that would already be long. (i.e. anointeds and bosses)


I agreed with you, but for a different reason. You’re saying “M4 takes more time than M3, so increase the drop rates”. I’m saying, “the difference between M3 and M4 doesn’t warrant such a change in drop rates. Drop rates suck in general and should be increased, not just in M4”.

The damage of M3 enemies is potentially greater than M4’s because there can be more modifiers that affect it. When you play SS with "Enemies have +40% Weapon Damage, +20% Fire Rate, and Increased Enemy AOE, you feel it. Anyways, like you said, the threat of M4 is that the player doesn’t deal enough damage, which leads to the point that players who aren’t geared for M4 shouldn’t be doing M4 content and at the very least, shouldn’t be complaining that the content is “too bullet spongey”. That last part of the previous sentence is not directed at you, in particular. I apologize if it offends you or other readers.

In the end, we both want the same thing, so I’ll end with that.

That’s kind of not how it works. Your Luck before that modifier matters and a 12.67% relic can be the difference between seeing 2 or 3 legendary items as you clear a zone and a whole bunch of them.

I’m not saying you do or don’t have a valid concern, just putting this on the table.

That aside, on PC I’m having no issues getting fountains of legendary items.

100 drops from Graveward, M4 (luck stats on the sheet).

Be warned, this is a personal use only SS so it’s not all formatted and pretty :wink:

This was in reference to the mayem % modifier presented in-game not actual results which are subject to RNG. 500 to 700 is a 30% increase and adding the 12.67 to both doesn’t change that percentage.

As to “Luck,” every post about it I could find anywhere is little more than guesswork because RNG creates too many uncontrollable variables for accurate testing. This is why Gearbox or the game itself should have been transparent about exactly how Luck works from the get-go. Since at this point it seems like that will never happen, we probably won’t know until data-miners find the answer. As it is, I’m not even convinced that Loaded Dice is the same effect as the rest of the Luck increases that actually give a number.

Actually, depending on the modifiers, enemies on M4 are almost always hitting harder because instead of elemental penalties, they are always getting a buff of some kind where they did not always get bonus damage on M3. My personal favorite is when they get 200 percent multi shot… with rockets! :rage::skull:

Edit: (I am referring to “fires two extra projectiles with every shot”)

Every luck stat is possibly bugged in some way. I’ve seen people claim that from tests they seem to suggest that guardian rank and certain combinations of other sources of luck might not stack or interact incorrectly, and in some case might even reduce your chance of getting loot.

I agree with the thread starter. While I’m enjoying M4 from a gameplay perspective and don’t plan to go back to other modes purely for that reason, in most cases it’s a bad value proposition for farming compared to M3. The extra time to kill enemies doesn’t bring with it a commensurate increase in loot quality/quantity.

I think an easy solution would be to keep the item drop rates the same but substantially boost the anointment rates.


I tried M4 a couple of times and frankly I don’t see the point. It just takes a looooooong time to kill anything and for what.

If there’s an M5 in the works I’m hoping it’s going to allow set modifiers that allow YOU to set them yourself.

So if you increase health, for example, there will be a trade off somewhere else. Or increasing fire resistance would make you more susceptible to crying…

You set your sliders accordingly and have at it.

That could be interesting.

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Well said, this sums up my feelings on M4 as well.

It’s not that the game is overly difficult or unrewarding per se, it just doesn’t feel right like a mild upgrade from M3 despite the massive enemy buffs.

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i’m fine how M4 plays for the most parts :slight_smile:

the overinflating healthbars and some enemies how ever are just completely broken and like you said, unrewarding.

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Practically speaking the time it takes to kill something doesn’t directly correlate to it’s health pool divided by your DPS.

Killing Graveward for example is:

  • Load in.
  • Run to arena.
  • Let opening animation play.
  • Kill Graveward.
  • Let Death animation play.
  • Check out loot.
  • Log back out to title screen
  • Rinse and Repeat.

If there’s only a couple of seconds difference in killing Graveward on average it’s unlikely to be any faster in M3 because all the other stuff takes exactly the same amount of time - The difference in kills per hour is negligible.

There’s certainly times when M4 is the desirable game mode - depending on your build and gear of course.