Magic the Gathering Discussion

So I’ve got nothing better to do tonight. Let’s talk about how things went south fast with M25. The set was heralded as a big celebration of magic’s history with a lot of high value reprints and iconic cards, things like that.

Well things didn’t go the way people wanted. Several cards people were hoping for reprints for didn’t get printed (also makes this yet another set without a bolt, which is particularly egregious). There are some good value/money pieces in it as I’ve pointed out in previous sets, but not as many as people expected. More to the point, let’s talk about the most utterly confusing inclusion in the set.

This goddamn barky boi.

If you don’t play a lot of magic… well even if you do, this inclusion is confusing at best. Hoarding up one of green’s two mythic slots is… this ■■■■■■■ janky ass tree. It’s ability is… tenuous at best, forcing the player to build decks around the effects for it to be really useful at all, and it was one of the worst mythics in the set it represents, innistrad.

Mark Rosewater has already tweeted about how this was a “last minute replacement” card in the set, leading people to speculate wildly on what it could have replaced. The leading theory at the moment is that it replaced Titania-

The main theory here being that Tree ended up being the only card that fit the naming scheme to be replaced without reshuffling a bunch of cards’s collector numbers.

My theory is no less baseless, but less popular.

I think at one point they wanted to include one of the priciest rares in modern, Liliana of the Veil.

Skankasaurus here has been sitting pretty at 120 for awhile as she’s one of the best three drop planeswalkers that has ever been printed, and sees a lot of modern play because of her solid ability set. Her +1 is even good for the person playing her, because it allows them to discard items to fatten out their graveyard for delirium, dredge, and flashback effects. Her -2 helps her stay alive, and her ultimate is both attainable to reach and devastating. She’s a great piece and there’s no reason to preclude her from a set like this.

Mostly.

My theory is that the original two black mythics were her and Doomsday, and green’s mythics were master of the hunt

and Vorinclex, from new Phyrexia.

My theory is at some point during development they realized that they really didn’t want to print lili and vorinclex. The reasons could be… well any goddamn reason, WOTC hasn’t been too forward on what was replaced or why, but in my scenario, the reasons are

  • They were afraid the set would have too much aftermarket value if it included Jace and Lili.
  • They were afraid that players would be irritated if they did two planeswalkers and not one for each color.
  • They were afraid that reprinting Vorin so close after Iconic Masters would piss people off.
  • Etc.

Any combination of these factors could have been in play, but in the end, they axed both cards. Now they’re in a pickle, because in my universe they’re paying a lot of attention to set symbol and don’t want their ratios to be off.

They can’t replace Vorin with another green mythic from New Phyrexia because he’s the only green mythic in New Phyrexia. This means that the green mythic is going to have to come from Innistrad, and the black mythic needs to come from Scars. The black pick is pretty easy since again, they’re avoiding Praetors. So they pick up Phyrexian Obliterator, despite him being kind of an odd pick for the set.

He’s odd because he’s expensive, but not for any good reason. His entire price is tied up in his cool factor, as his casting requirement (BBBB) eliminates him from any practical play outside of EDH/Commander, and even then, he’s mostly limited to mono black decks. However, he’s one of the (surprisingly few) representations of Phyrexia in the set, so that fixes a problem.

Their real problem becomes replacing the green mythic - again, the card has to come from innistrad, which had utter garbage rares.


Garruk is the first obvious choice for historical reasons, but they can’t include him because again, they’re trying to avoid walkers that aren’t Jace and he isn’t mono green, meaning he doesn’t fit set balance.

Essence of the wild is so janky that I’ve never tried to play it, and I love garbage cards.

That leaves one thing-

Tree is a pretty bad choice, but it’s the best choice of those available. It still sees fringe play in commander decks (particularly decks like Doran, which try to let creatures attack with their defense) and it has a pretty powerful effect that can be political in multiplayer games.

So they go with tree.

The ■■■■■■, garbage, monster ■■■■■■■ tree.

That’s my theory, at least.

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It feels like I talk a lot about commander on here and I feel like I’ve never really… explained it fully. What’s that, no one? You want me to? Well I am bored at work, so what the ■■■■.

Commander (sometimes called EDH) is a “casual” format of magic that focuses on deckbuilding and multiplayer play. It was created by a group of world tour judges way back when. They spent a lot of time together on the road and naturally, when they did, they’d play magic, because apparently they were all masochists who couldn’t separate work and pleasure time. However, being judges, they’d seen a lot of decks/formats and wanted to play cards that didn’t see a lot of play, so they came up with their own format to come up with more interesting mixes. They called it Elder Dragon Highlander, or EDH. The “Elder Dragon” portion comes from the fact that the first “commanders” were usually one of the elder dragons printed way back in days of yore.

The phrase “Highlander” was added because of the singleton nature of the format (more on that later, but the short version is “There can only be one”).

However their game eventually came to include any legendary creature. The format gained traction and tournaments as something fun to do between matches, and eventually developed enough of a following that Wizards bought the format so they could print cards specifically for it. They left the original judges in place and hired them to maintain the format’s rules and banlists, and renamed the format Commander.

So what sets commander apart from other MTG formats? Again, I’m glad you asked no one. You’re really inquisitive today, and I like that in my imaginary audience.

Typical MTG formats have a set of rules in deckbuilding. Those rules usually limit what sets your cards can be from, how big your deck can be (usually there’s no limit on max, but minimum is 60), and how many of one particular card you can have in the deck (usually 4) to encourage random play that doesn’t get stale.

Commander has these rules as well, but they differ wildly from other formats.

  • A Commander deck must be exactly 100 cards (no more, no less).
  • Commander decks follow the singleton build restraint (you can’t have more than one of any card, except for basic lands).
  • One of those cards must be a Legendary Creature (a special creature that you can only have one of out at a time, usually representing a particular character in an MTG set) that is defined as your Commander.
  • The remaining cards in the deck must match at least one color of the deck’s Commander’s “Color Identity” or be colorless.
  • Any tournament legal magic card (that is not included in the format’s ban list) can be played.

The game is also played somewhat differently than other MTG formats.

A Commander game follows the standard MTG rules, except for the following:

  • At the start of the game, each player places their commander in a special zone called the “command zone” (this does not exist in other formats [except for Conspiracy, but we wont talk about that here])
  • As long as a player can pay their commander’s mana cost, they may cast their commander from the command zone at any time they could legally cast the card.
  • Whenever a deck’s commander would be placed in the exile or graveyard zones, or would be shuffled into the player’s deck or placed into their hand, that player may instead choose to place it into the command zone.
  • Each time the player does this, the card’s cost increases by two colorless mana.
  • Each player starts the game at 40 life (in most formats, this is 20).
  • If any player would take 21 damage from any other players commander over the course of the game, that player loses the game.

So there’s a lot to unwrap here. First let’s tackle the idea of a Commander.

Your commander is a representative of the deck you’re playing that you’ll basically always have access to play. Typically you want that card to also be representative of the deck or have an ability that greatly increases it’s playability, but this is not necessary. It’s not even necessary that you play your commander at some point in the game - you just have to have one to be able to build a deck. Each time your commander would leave play (in basically any way), you can throw it back into the command zone and cast it again later… but it will cost more, so protecting it is a good idea.

The other thing to tackle when talking about commander is the phrase “color identity” because it appears… almost in no other format. Typically when discussing a card’s color, you only care about the kind of mana that had to be spent to cast the card. Example: one of my favorite cards, Goblin Arsonist…

Is red. It costs red mana to cast and has a red border, so yeah.

Some cards have multiple colors. For instance, Dominus of Fealty and Dack’s Duplicate…

Are both red and blue.

However color identity is a bit different than actual color, as it represents all mana symbols on the card. I played a game last week against a Tasigur deck, which illustrates the difference pretty well.

Tas by himself is a black creature. However his color identity is Black, Blue, Green, because it contains all of those mana symbols on the card. In the case of that deck, the player can use cards of any of those colors, because they would matcha t least part of Tas’s color identity.

An important thing to note is that the deck can’t include cards that produce mana specifically outside of it’s color identity as well. For instance, you wouldn’t be able to put a Mountain into a Tasigur deck, because it produces red mana. However, you can use lands that produce any kind of color, like mana confluence…

Then when the game starts you can make that mana. It just can’t have the red mana symbol on it.

So… dafuq does all this mean?

The nature of the decks in commander is highly variable, mostly thanks to the high card count required by the format as well as the singleton rule. It would be very rare for you to meet someone with exactly your deck, even if you’re using the same commander and general strategy because of the variance included.

Additionally, the game is designed to go on a lot longer than an average magic game and play a bit slower. For example, a typical round in a standard tournament lasts an hour, and players are expected to get 3 matches (full games) in before time goes up. Occasionally one or two games will have a draw, but one match is usually easily doable. I played a commander game last week that lasted an hour and forty-five goddamn minutes. The reason is that because of the deckbuilding restraints, the decks are naturally slower, and because you start at double the normal life value it’s harder to put a player out of the game before they’re able to build some type of response.

One of my favorite aspects of the game however is that because of the slowdown, fun or interesting cards that otherwise wouldn’t be competitive in the least get a chance to really shine. Take another of my favorite cards, Rite of Replication.

On it’s own… this isn’t a great card. It costs 4 to put out a copy of a target creature on the board which is a cool ability blue gets all the time. The exciting thing in the card is the kicker (an additional cost that may be paid as you lay the card), which allows you to put five copies of that creature onto the battlefield rather than just one. However, to play this card with the kicker, it’d take 9 mana rather than 4. In most formats, if you hit 9 mana, you’re either playing a control deck, a ramp deck, or the game ended 3-4 turns ago.

So this card isn’t good in any format. Except commander, where’s its a goddamn staple. The ability to ■■■■ 5 of anything for one card is a great deal, and this card has won more games than Michael Jordan. Cards like this see loads of play in commander, and it’s become almost memetic when WOTC prints a high cost card with a unique ability that “it will see commander play”, because it probably wont almost anywhere else.

Finally probably the best aspect of this format is that it’s designed to be a multiplayer, round the kitchen table format. As long as your friends know the basic rules of magic, it takes maybe 5 minutes of explanation to toss them a deck and have them join in and be competitive, which is rare. The variance and variety of cards means that a high competency player could be put under the gun quick by a newbie, and have to really flex the ole brain noodle to get out of the jam. Newer players may have problems grasping cards or mechanics they haven’t seen before, but after the general rules are explained it can be quick to pick up, and is cheap or competitive as you’d like.

I figured I’d round this out with some humblebrags to show the variance of what you can do with the format, and to give my commanders some love.

My most competitive/quick deck is what I’m hoping to play tomorrow, and is piloted by Krenko, Mob Boss. The goal of the deck is to produce a lot of small, useless creatures and either overwhelm everyone else at the table or blow them up to blow everyone else up at the table.

My cheapest deck is (admittedly) a bit Janky, but I’m still pretty proud of what I was able to put together for around 90 bucks when I built my Olivia Volderen deck. This deck rotates around a vampire tribal theme and Olivia gives me the option to always pick and steal my opponents creatures.

My most expensive and complicated monstrosity has to be Riku, of Two Reflections. This deck is designed to ramp up quickly and then copy spells to gain multiple extra turns or to overrun the opponents with a bunch of creatures. I have two cards sideboarded into the deck for when it wants to get “serious”, both of which are win conditions on their own (Biovisionary and Deciever Exarch).

Finally, probably the one I’m most proud of at the moment is the one I’ve been tormenting people about. I recently converted my Jeleva deck into what I call “mirror match”, designed exclusively to steal, copy, and graverob everyone else at the table to death. It’s not great, but it’s fun as hell.

So there are a lot of different things to do or want to try out in the format, and again, the biggest benefit is you get to build how you want to. If anyone (or no one, for being so attentive) is interested in getting into it, I’m always up for tossing out deck/card ideas.

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Well. Dominaria is spoiled. Not good news for wizards or anyone hoping for exclusive spoilers.

Somebodys gonna get fuuuucked.

Editing in thoughts on spoiled cards as I go through the pastebin on the reddit thread.


Evra, Halcyon Witness
4WW
Legendary Creature — Avatar
4/4
Lifelink
4: Exchange your life total with Evra, Halcyon Witness’s power.

You want a 40/4 lifelinker in commander? Because this is how you get a 40/4 lifelinker.


The Eldest Reborn
4B
Enchantment — Saga
(As this Saga enters and after your draw step, add a lore counter. Sacrifice after III.)
I — Each opponent sacrifices a creature or planeswalker.
II — Each opponent discards a card.
III — Put target creature or planeswalker card from a graveyard onto the battlefield under your control.

Probably not the best saga, but it’s worth putting them out there to note how sagas will work. Basically enchantments that level up.


Firesong and Sunspeaker (Buy-a-Box Promotional Card)
4RW
Legendary Creature – Minotaur Cleric
4/6
Red instant and sorcery spells you control have lifelink.
Whenever a white instant or sorcery spell causes you to gain life, Firesong and Sunspeaker deals 3 damage to target creature or player.

Oh hai new automatic boros commander. You alright.


Garna, the Bloodflame
3BR
Legendary Creature — Human Warrior
3/3
Flash
When Garna, the Bloodflame enters the battlefield, return to your hand all creature cards in your graveyard that were put there from anywhere this turn.
Other creatures you control have haste.

Fuuuuuuu---------------------


Ghitu Lavarunner
R
Creature — Human Wizard
1/2
As long as there are two or more instant and/or sorcery cards in your graveyard, Ghitu Lavarunner gets +1/+0 and has haste.

Can’t tell if new red staple or jank.

Edit edit: Just saw that was two instas or sorcs. Pretty much jank.


Grunn, the Lonely King
4GG
Legendary Creature — Ape Warrior
5/5
Kicker 3 (You may pay an additional 3 as you cast this spell.)
If Grunn, the Lonely King was kicked, it enters the battlefield with five +1/+1 counters on it.
Whenever Grunn attacks alone, double its power and toughness until end of turn.

Ladies and gentlemen, Timmy, the card.


Helm of the Host
4
Legendary Artifact — Equipment
At the beginning of combat on your turn, create a token that’s a copy of equipped creature, except the token isn’t legendary if equipped creature is legendary. That token gains haste.
Equip 5

… This solves a lot of problems for krenko.


Jaya, you still sexy gurl.

Jaya Ballard
2RRR
Legendary Planeswalker — Jaya
5
+1: Add RRR. Spend this mana only to cast instant or sorcery spells.
+1: Discard up to three cards, then draw that many cards.
−8: You get an emblem with “You may cast instant and sorcery cards from your graveyard. If a card cast this way would be put into your graveyard, exile it instead.”


Jaya’s Immolating Inferno
XRR
Legendary Sorcery
(You may cast a legendary sorcery only if you control a legendary creature or planeswalker.)
Jaya’s Immolating Inferno deals X damage to each of up to three targets.

• You can’t target the same target more than once to have Jaya’s Immolating Inferno deal more damage to it.

Worth posting to know how legendary sorceries work.


Jhoira’s Familiar
4
Artifact Creature — Bird
2/2
Flying
Historic spells you cast cost 1 less to cast. (Artifacts, legendaries, and Sagas are historic.)

Worth mentioning because “historic” is a new tag.


Jodah, Archmage Eternal
1URW
Legendary Creature — Human Wizard
4/3
Flying
You may pay WUBRG rather than pay the mana cost for spells that you cast.**

sigh Still pushing that 5 color pie. This one’s solid though.


Kazarov, Sengir Pureblood
5BB
Legendary Creature — Vampire
4/4
Flying
Whenever a creature an opponent controls is dealt damage, put a +1/+1 counter on Kazarov, Sengir Pureblood.
3R: Kazarov deals 2 damage to target creature.

Mmmm dat olivia bait.


Lich’s Mastery
3BBB
Legendary Enchantment
Hexproof
You can’t lose the game.
Whenever you gain life, draw that many cards.
Whenever you lose life, for each 1 life you lost, exile a permanent you control or a card from your hand or graveyard.
When Lich’s Mastery leaves the battlefield, you lose the game.

Risky cards are risky.


Muldrotha, the Gravetide
3BGU
Legendary Creature — Elemental Avatar
6/6
During each of your turns, you may play up to one permanent card of each permanent type from your graveyard. (If a card has multiple permanent types, choose one as you play it.)

Holy ■■■■■■■■■ this is dumb. They… sincerely ■■■■■■ up here. This is going to warp BUG’s entire commander philosophy. Legit, best bug commander before it ever hits.


Rona, Disciple of Gix
1UB
Legendary Creature — Human Artificer
2/2
When Rona, Disciple of Gix enters the battlefield, you may exile target historic card from your graveyard. (Artifacts, legendaries, and Sagas are historic.)
You may cast nonland cards exiled with Rona.
4, T: Exile the top card of your library.

Hai, im Jhoira, except just… better in most ways.


Squee, the Immortal
1RR
Legendary Creature — Goblin
2/1
You may cast Squee, the Immortal from your graveyard or from exile.

Hot stinky goblin sex.


Teferi, Hero of Dominaria
3WU
Legendary Planeswalker — Teferi
4
+1: Draw a card. At the beginning of the next end step, untap two lands.
−3: Put target nonland permanent into its owner’s library third from the top.
−8: You get an emblem with “Whenever you draw a card, exile target permanent an opponent controls.”

Mmm dat time mage.

And so it begins.

Also, the frame for sagas is ugly as balls.

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And the winner for “inconvenient cleavage on a card” goes to…

Hmm.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

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You know that’s a quality cleavage when it’s called “Soaring Hope” and has it’s own set of wings.

Almost brings a tear to my eye.

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Off topic sorry but I hate this word :laughing:

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Apologies, but there’s no other word for it when something like that comes up. MTG, like a lot of fantasy based things, has had it’s share of criticism when it comes to female artwork. They’re getting better, but have had some problems in the past. One of gathering magic’s female commentators (from way back when I actually went there rather than the forum group that I followed for forever) had a pretty good article on art portrayals, but I can’t locate it at the moment.

I was somewhat surprised where our opinions diverged.

We both agreed new Akroma was… somewhat “idealized”.

But she found issue with Radha, where I did not.

I see the point of argument, in that she’s fairly scantily clad. At the same time, she’s part of a ■■■■■■■ barbarian elf clan and I get much a much bigger vibe from the hip-blood spatter and the severed head than I do anything sexual from her, which I think is the point of the character.

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You don’t have to apologise lol, I was just reflecting :stuck_out_tongue: Also secretly enjoying infiltrating your thread with my usual irrelevance

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More tangentially on topic, I’ve been reading Maro’s “color interview” articles from Khans of Tarkir, and there are some great gems.

Sure, you care about the group, but you never care about an individual. If someone has to die to save 50 others, you don’t blink an eye. It’s all about the “greater good.” But at what cost? Everybody needs someone to care about them more than 50 strangers. - Red

Damn you red, not in my feels.

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So Wizards officially spoilered one of the cards from the leak I referenced earlier.

And then lost any amount of good will they had by stating that this card would only be available as Buy a Box promo, meaning that it wont be in boosters at all.

Peeps are (rightfully) livid, especially since this card (and the other RW legendary in the set) fill a much needed niche for commander - Boros Commanders that don’t rely entirely on combat tricks.

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Box topper only huh? That’s dirty.

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“This is genuinely the stupidest decision Wizards has ever made in their entire history as a company.” - Guy from my MTG boards who’s written articles for mothership.

Which… might be hyperbole, but It is an astoundingly dumb and dirty call and I have no ■■■■■■■ idea who decided it would be a good idea.

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money

It’s a decision based purely on making (even more) money. Will it bite them in the ass? We will see.

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That’s the thing. They’ve done this before and vowed to never do it again because of the backlash. In 93 or 94 they did a print of Nalathni Dragon that was only available through a specific con. It’s not out of the ordinary for them to do joke (silver bordered cards, like unglued. I think I showed you the grimlock last week) cards or even snazzy promo cards at conventions now, but they’ve always been availalbe in sets. This seems like a ridiculously stupid move, and worst of all, they did it on a card that is likely ONLY GOING TO SEE PLAY IN COMMANDER which is THEIR MOST POPULAR CASUAL FORMAT.

Filthy casuals (like me) crack packs somewhat often. Buying boxes is something we usually only do when the set in question has a lot of “weird” cards we want to tinker with. So far I’m not sure that Dom fits the bill.

… here’s some of those pretty promos I mentioned, cause I like looking at them.

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I think backlash II has just begun with this latest move. I hope the fans shout the stupid (and greed) out of them for good this time.

Sexy looking cards.

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Bought 9 packs of m25 to start vacay. Pulled jace. So far this is looking up.

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This needs a gloss!

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That’s the problem with mind sculptors. You never know when the handy was your idea.

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Congrats Arson.

ip6n3mwmyvd01

Yes I posted a pic because the reader needs to behold the power of the card you pulled. Let them drool I say!

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