Making Deande more of an Assassin

Let me start by saying that I really enjoy playing Deande, I am by no means a pro at her, but I enjoy every game I use her in no matter how I end up doing. However, I feel she doesn’t quite live up to her Assassin nature or her character theme.
There are people who use her effectively, but much of the time she only works to pick off weak characters that may have been killed anyway or get a kill if you’re lucky enough to find a squishy out of formation and sentry range.

For me, her problems lay in her damage output and weird skill/hilix setup, particularly in early game.
Her Holo-twin is often either wasted on getting stealth or saved for an escape in which case you lose her unique stealth bonus.
Her Burst Dash is either a bad escape if you favor stealth or your only attack skill if you don’t.
In either case she has huge amounts of hilix options that are comepletly useless particularly those that involve boosting her Holo-twin.

My change is simple. Give her stealth at the end of her Burst Dash too.(The damage bonus on her passive may need to be adjusted to compensate)
With stealth off Burst Dash you get extra chances to proc all her stealth based passives.
You can use Burst Dash to initiate steath, saving Holo-Twin for an incombat helper/burst damage for a stealth build or give those specing Burst Dash a way to use their bonuses without losing Holo-Twins escape potential.
You also make her more of a shadow agent as per her charater theme, being much harder to keep track of.
Finally it means there is a third build option for stealth where you can spec to boost her Holo-Twin, making it a viable mid fight move to create a 1v1.5 situation.

I think her damage is perfect if you go with the right helix build. Regarding gear go with pure attack speed and skill damage and you are all set OH and most important her uppercut. I think any damage buff to her will make her OP. The only buff she needs is her melee hitbox.

I much prefer lifesteal over uppercut. Far to easy to quick meele out of uppercut and run away. Lifesteal gives you so much more sustain with atkspd gear. Can solo the two thrall camps and never lose hp at level 3 with 10-15% atk spd boost.

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This is kinda the point of Deande though, she sneaks and lurks and waits, opportunistically waiting to pick off unsuspecting enemies who strayed too far from their allies or cut off an enemy escape. If she was what everyone else who has problems with her envisions a melee assassin to be, like Rath and Phoebe for example, then she wouldn’t be Deande she’d be, well; another Rath or Phoebe.

I’m not sure I understand the problem you have here?

If you’re using her Burst Dash as an escape, well, you shouldn’t be using Burst Dash as an escape. That’s what Holotwin is for.

This would create a big imbalance problem. You’d be able to deploy decoy then use Burst Dash to proc her passive, then you’d be stealthed again and you could either escape while her decoy finishes the kill or uncloak and re-activate her passive a second time and string together highly damaging attacks. Only three characters have cloaking abilities and stealth is Deande’s niche, but if she did nothing but stealth then, well, she’d do nothing but stealth. I see a big problem with a character having perma-invisibility.

I don’t like the uppercut either, I think it’s overrated and doted on because it’s her only real form of CC other than her ult, but it exposes Deande and is easily avoidable. I prefer the thrown fan damage however, she already had passive 10% life steal and I get a lot more use out of her thrown fans than her melee attacks so 18% is a nice boost. And, since she’s life stealing anyway, 18% damage makes an extra 10% life steal redundant when you’re throwing fans :wink:

That’s part of my issue.
She has a lot more helix options than other people that are completely overlooked. They aren’t even situational.

This is my big problem though. Save Holo-Twin for an escape. That means until much later levels, don’t use it for stealth initiate a lot of the time. That goes completely against her passive and class design.
She’s meant to strike from the shadows, take you out before you know what hit you.
It’s counter intuitive to save her only stealth mechanic to be used to bail on combat.

Like I said, if the double strath damage is a problem, tweak her passive down, at least then it’s getting used every encounter.

I also am a fan of ranged fan damage though.
I find I much more reliable than the juggle, particularly against really quick evasive ranged who manage to slip your melted combo just once.

Well if your using her clone as an escape rather than an attack that a problem with you not the character. You could make this case with anyone who has a skill that can be used as an escape.

A thousand times this.

She is the most well-rounded and fun of all the characters I’ve played thus far, but the melee hit box needs a slight tweak to adjust for deadzone and range.

Honestly I feel she’s best to get behind the enemy lines drop a holotwin, hit the weakest link with a burst dash (with the extra damage from uncloaking it deals enough to usually pick off someone at half health) Later on you get the mutation so her holotwin can life steal for you with the increased damage morph you should be using the holotwin to help you fight and not to run away with. Also having a healer or someone to cover your back is always a plus. Think of her as less of a solo melee dps and more of a support melee dps.

I have to agree with a lot of what is being said about Deande. I’ve been using her a lot lately and she could definitely use a few changes. Here are a few of my thoughts.

1.) Her untimate: Of all the characters I’ve used so far, she easily has my least favorite ultimate. You’re completely wide open while it charges, it doesn’t do all that much damage and enemies are usually out of the stun before the animation completes allowing you to take damage while you’re stuck in the ultimate. I would suggest changing at least one of those three issues. Either a.) an instant fire or much shorter charge time, b.) a longer stun for people who are hit or c.) make her immune to damage at least for the duration of the animation. Another good option would be to give her cloak once she finishes so when her ultimate doesn’t kill anyone (and it won’t) she still has a chance to gtfo

2.) Her speed: for an assassin-themed character, it boggles my mind why she isn’t much MUCH faster than she currently is. Her movement speed/sprint/attack speed should all be increased to account for her somewhat low damage output and the fact that she’ll often find herself fleeing a battle.

3.) I also agree that cloak after burst dash should be considered. I hardly even pay attention to the current boosts she gets after de-cloaking as holotwin is usually me trying not to get killed and running away as opposed to an offensive measure and judging by some of the comments, I’m not alone.

In my opinion she’s perfect whenever I play Deande I get 8+ kills with little to no deaths. I never have an issue with dmg or taking out my targets. I mostly play incursion btw.

I disagree with everything you said. First of all her speed is relatively good ontop of the fact she has a clone/cloak, secondly her ult is fantastic for looking down enemies it should be used more for control and less of an execute. When the enemies are stunned your team should take advantage and dish out as much dmg as possible. 3.) If you think she has a low dmg output I’m afraid you are mistaken.

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That I can agree upon, I don’t want her hotbox to be like rath or galilea( which in my opinion doesn’t take much skill to land, I like that it’s relatively small emphasizing the need to practice her as a character.

I am so upset that still haven’t addressed her melee hitbox in the latest patch.

There’s nothing wrong with her ult imo. You drop the holo on a 2/3 life character stealth behind and charge while still in stealth which will kill almost anyone (except tanks) especially if they are solo. If you’re trying to do it in the open you’re asking to get interrupted.

She has a speed helix. which also helps set up her ult even quicker since you can sneak around faster.

Except that using her ult drops you out of stealth. Yes they might miss you because you show up suddenly. But you are now visible and vulnerable for a good amount of time before and after you use it.

She needs a horizontal melee hitbox increase and movement speed buff.

Helix movement speed option is unreliable and outshined at that tier anyway. And having a movement speed increase that relies on kills doesn;t help at all when your target can walk backwards and attack you faster than you can walk forward and attack them. Start out next to a marquis at the gate and watch how much faster he pulls away from you running.

In general characters walking backwards and attacking should suffer a larger movement penalty than characters walking forwards and attacking.

Something like:

Sprinting - 120% move speed

Moving without attacking - 100%

Moving forward and attacking - 90%

Strafing and attacking - 80%

Moving backwards and attacking - 75%

Or something to that effect…

I don’t like her ultimate because aoe can blow her up during it. It already does a tiny amount of damage. Why can Oscar mike throw a grenade and kill me during it.

Oscar Mike is just a powerful character in general. Way too easy to be effective with.

My main problem w/ it is that you seem to be able to take damage from either the position you were originally in (from AoE) or from where you are in close proximity around your target or targets (which results in several weird instakills in PvE when used on certain boss characters).

It’s not a great skill to begin with: it seems to be a group stun, but in that regard it’s worse than Kelvin’s basic skill Sublimate, which allows greater control & is mostly unavoidable; it seems like you’d want to use it from stealth & that would make it effective, but triggering it takes you out of stealth for the interminably long windup. If the stars align you can use it to effectively lock down several major enemies/players in teammates’ AoE nuke, or more often you can surprise attack someone from behind to take them down from low health (more fitting of the ‘assassin’ role), but in that case it’s just kind of another burst dash that’s even more situational. It’s one of those ults that just feels like a third ability.