Making Moze's Iron Bear relevant in Multiplayer (and at Level 50 too)

I love Moze, but like many, soon found that once she gets to level 50, Iron Bear is very weak. Also in multiplayer, nobody ever rides in Iron Bear’s turret. So how can this be fixed without dramatically recoding the skills or game?

Here are some suggestions to discuss. In multiplayer, Moze’s Iron Bear could have:

  1. Double Iron Bear’s armor and fuel if another player is in the turret. And that player shouldn’t take any damage just like Moze doesn’t when she is piloting Iron Bear.

  2. Iron Bear’s shield should be much wider (and stronger) so that those vault hunters who can’t get in the turret can shelter under the shield or behind Iron Bear.

  3. Iron Bear should not just get returned fuel for kills, but a portion of armor repaired as well. And perhaps it can get a small percentage returned for the kills of other vault hunters too while Iron Bear is active.

  4. Iron Bear’s shield, just like any other shield, should be able to benefit from dropped shield boosters from other vault hunters.

  5. Right now, entering Iron Bear can be configured to cause other vault hunters to regenerate shields at an accelerated rate, but this could also include health regen for them as well.

  6. Vault hunters jumping into Iron Bear’s turret could get some of their ammo or grenades replenished, making Iron Bear an emergency supply depot.

  7. For single and multiplayer, Iron Bear’s armor and shields should get a bit of a buff from Moze’s personal shield or artifacts. Right now Iron Bear melts from elemental attacks at level 50, especially corrosive attaacks, but if Iron Bear could pick up some resistance from Moze herself, then it might make it more viable.

I love Moze, but right now I basically use Iron Bear as a pre-emptive Second Wind, popping into it if I’m on the verged of dying, but for little else. That’s a pity. The big selling point for Moze was Iron Bear, but it becomes of very little use in solo or multiplayer play all too quickly.

I’d like to see Iron Bear not necessarily doing much more damage, but definitely being able to take much more punishment. And in multiplayer, Iron Bear should be a welcome sight for other players. It will be the spearhead in an assault, or an island of defense if things get too overwhelming. Make Iron Bear what people thought it would be and you will see it on the battlefield a lot more often than you do now.


idk about that, I just want that camera to be in first person instead of over the shoulder

I, of course, agree with you on that Iron Bear needs a reworking, which the devs say they’re working on, and I’m glad. But, some of your suggestions seem a bit odd, like being able to use shield boosters. Imagine if you play with three other people and they all have boosters, your shield could be impenetrable. Maybe if it was that the shield could regen a bit after each kill, that might be cool. Now, I really like your idea that Iron Bear could supply ammo, it could act like a moving fortress and be in a support role, but probably not infinite ammo, four people endlessly mowing things down is too much.

I definitely like some of these. In general though I think the strengthening of IB should tie hard to skill points allotted. My Moze is insane out of IB so if I want a strong IB “punish” me by making me use skill points in it and sacrifice walking tank of death like I currently am. The issue end game is that those allotted IB points don’t seem to be worth it in comparison to other ones because of how weak IB is. At the same time if IB gets a big buff and I can keep my same build then we may see everyone be Moze since she’ll be better than the rest.

I don’t know how feasible this is or if it would require major skill tree redoing but I think it would be good.

I think it’s mostly the scaling of Iron Bear, it’s armor just doesn’t stand up to the damage that end game enemies can dish out. For the turret though, I’ve heard some wacky things mentioned like it matching the character’s equipped weapon, but I don’t know how they can spin it to be very beneficial, unless they just make it to damage comparable to Iron Bear itself.

Definitely. Actually end game IB isn’t horrible for regular mobbing. If you don’t have a ton of people around it will last a little bit.

Now throw it in circles of slaughter where you got ten people on you…then it’s just a shield recharger for me.

There was some discussion about IB just not having health at all, that way you don’t end up waisting two minutes just to have him melted in seconds. Do you think that would be too much?

I must have missed that discussion. It’s an interesting thought. I don’t have any idea how feasible this stuff would be in regards to her skill tree or if it would require major reworkings. She has a lot of skills that relate to IB for sure.

I know Axtons turret rockets leveled at a consistent rate as you leveled up and I’m thinking that their “armor” did as well? I don’t remember my turrets getting shredded quickly at any point even as I moved up to OP 10. But those also didn’t have as many skill point tinkering things to play with.

Sometimes I think we were almost given too much. I mean you’ve got different trees, different skills, and different areas within the trees that effect how those skills work. Seems like a lot for them to have to balance when trying to mess around with this stuff.

I remember reading a discussion between two people where one defended that IB is at least survivable currently with the right perks and class mods, and another said that to do so would be a waist of perks and a class mod. They retorted that what action skill is good without any actual investment, and I realized they were right. So many people just abandoned IB altogether because it took too much investment to them. But, if making IB useful requires a minimum of 10 to 15 points just to make it survive a bit longer, it still needs a bit of adjustment.

I would just make him scale with the same flat health bonus from Mayhem, he is kinda tanky now but not enough for a defense action skill.

Allowing to the player to use shields to remvoe the corrosive damage would not be a good idea, at least now it still requires some combat awareness to not deploy him in the middle of an acid rain.

moze doesn’t need the iron bear. most only pop it for temp defense, to refresh shields and use crouch button (PC) to exit right away.

the black out getting into it and out is annoying, damage is poor, too much of a worthless gimmick. i was laughing when DEVs said they would like to stay in iron bear longer

if they buff iron bear, imo they need to nerf moze, she is OP

That’s what the devs don’t like, that IB is so broken that people don’t like using it despite it being a key part of her character, that people are investing so much in skills to prevent ever using it. I too am a bit tempted to do so until they do more to fix it. I like the utility of IB, but especially with its cooldown being so long, I save it for when I’m just about to die.

broken still imo, flak…pet is just a insta gib, problem is building flak tanky for survival he suffers overall. you have to have a boss build and mobbing build. even when mobbing, i have to hit inventory which pauses game swap shields, coms, etc. based on annointed, badasses, etc. makes game feel cheap when you can stop game play switching inventory, or map port out of fights.

Iron Bear has a lot of problems, the biggest I personally think is that it does not influence or really work with how Moze plays. Iron Bear is the only Action Skill Moze has and for that reason it is forced to mesh with each of the skill trees rather than other action skills feeling drawn to a particular tree or play style.

To begin fixing Iron Bear I think at minimum the three one point skills, Auto Bear, Dakka Bear (the turret) and Security Bear (the shield) should be part of the base Action Skill.

Then these three abilities could be further added to by going down the trees, Shield of Retribution influencing IB’s shield Bottomless Mags adding things to the turret etc.

Next the way that Iron Bear is activated needs to change. If Auto Bear is part of the base ability you could then press the Action Skill button to deploy Iron Bear, in the nearest location that it can be, I can think of no other action skill that when used tells you there isn’t enough room to activate it. Holding down the Action Skill button should attempt to enter Iron Bear as it does now.

I also think that Fuel needs to be changed. Firing Iron Bears weapons chewing through its duration makes using Iron Bear feel bad, especially with a 2 minute cooldown to use it again. If Fuel stays then the Ammunition/Reload and the Heat up of the weapons should be removed.

these are a few of the Ideas I have had to make Iron bear at least feel a part of Moze’s kit rather than something in addition to it.

By making autobear, security bear, and dakka bear all inherit to the skill, it prevents IB from seeming unique in each tree. Maybe instead, make having each one inherit in their own tree. But, dakka bear is almost useless playing solo, unless you have auto bear, and for some reason jump on the turret.

Heating up of minigun is just their “reload”, and makes players have to be selective with their firing, so I like that. I’m interested in you saying to get rid of weapons costing fuel, and I’m still thinking about the idea of just getting rid of health in IB altogether.

if the black out animation can’t be removed or reduced when entering and exiting, i would rather have versions of iron bear that are assistant mech pets

That, and buffing the damage by 500%. Just saying

In the beginning, it’s damage and health are acceptable, but it gets worse the higher the level you are. So, instead of a flat 500% bonus, maybe instead make it increase in damage by 10% every level so by the time you reach level 50, it’s at a 500% bonus. Do you think that could work?

Bae damage should be raised a bit to match TVHM normal mode HP pool.

Then, all ability should scale on the Mayhem level. I mean if the enemies have suddenly +100% HP, skill, which have no way to scale with item, should just receive a flat buff equivalent to the mayhem boost

That would be a good thing to try.