Maya BeeHawk vs BeeHarold

So me and my friend just finished UMVH mode and have been looting all the good guns at at 72 (while I know we still have the OP levels to go, just trying to gear up and take swings at bosses on 72)

Anyway was just wondering, does the Bee Hawk combo on Maya out dps a Be Harold combo ? Was trying to do the Math on it earlier on the test dummy in Sanctuary but I feel like I’m not understanding the way the bird shape bullets from the Hawk work especially when going for crits or head shots. I was wondering does it work as hitting the center bullet makes all the other hit too? or does each one count as an individual unconnected projectile ? cause when I was testing on the dummy if I aimed for a direct headshot I’d get a 6.5mill crit (still missing my Cat class mod), but if I aimed at like neck level I’d get a 6.5 mill + 4.5 mill crit. And then I got thinking that I was feeling that the BeeHarold just does better damage than the famous Siren Beehawk combo.

Also is there a better way to farm the Sandhawk than to keep redoing the Captain Scarlet questline? (for when we get to OP8)

Each projectile is individual. That’s why you get different results on the dummy. It’s impossible to get all the projectiles to hit on such a small target. 1-3 is the normal outcome, iirc.

A Harold may very well outdamage a Sandhawk, but only if you manage to hit the sweetspot where the projectiles split up. This is very hard to do in the long run, and that’s why the Sandhawk is a more popular choice. You also need to consider the ammo pool you have available for these guns. If you go for a DPUH, the amp damage on each projectile is cut in half, so any other prefix is preferred.

In a mobbing situation, these things won’t matter that much. It’s more or less whichever one prefers, but against raids… The BeeHawk combo, and a Legendary Cat, is the way to go. No contest!

No, not in the vanilla game! But I think the Sandhawk was added to the loot pool on some enemy in the community patch. Don’t recall which one, though.


In addition to what @Ronnie_Rayburn said, don’t forget that Maya has tools to boost SMG DPS significantly (Cat class mod series)

Which is PC-only (worth mentioning because I’m never sure who knows what!)

Hmm… The Sandhawk splits from the point of firing, does it not? So I’m assuming Accelerate wouldn’t reduce the spread of the pellets before they reached the target?


In addition to all that, in order to get the Harold’s pellets to all land, you need to be much closer to the target than the Sand Hawk : which means a greatly increased chance of the Bee getting broken due to incoming fire.


I’ll also add that you can match elements with the sandhawk, which is even better when you use a BotA or standard element relic


The Sandhawk is probably the gun that benefits most from Accelerate. It’s projectiles are quite slow, and don’t spread.


what kind of Relic should I be looking for to go with Beehawk combo for Raids ? both for 72 and op 8 ( aiming for a shock hawk at op8) . Bsides my cat class mod, only other thing I prob a a right fitting relic, currently using a CDR + fire damage relic for my SS Binder build for running through story mode (partly since it’s been the only Siren mod I’ve been able to get from tubbys)

Is that a Bone of the Ancients?

Generally people will default to using ( and recommending ) a Bone ; however in a raid, as you often have nothing to Phaselock ( which makes cooldown irrelevant ), an elemental relic works just fine.

A Cat COM is a fine substitute for a Legendary Cat ( although the L Cat’s boost to Reaper is pretty irresistible ).


Unkempt Harold is boss but the only other weapon that can keep up with the Legendary Cat+Sandhawk combo is the Pimpernel.

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wouldnt you want the CDR for Phase lock to apply slag ?

A Bone of the Ancients is basically the default relic for Maya. You can never go wrong with it. However… Some of the raid bosses (Terra, Hyperius and Vora, iirc) wash off the slag very quickly, which in turn makes the cooldown irrelevant. Add to that, the fact that elemental damage is less effective the higher you get in the OP levels, and you’ll start looking for alternatives.

A Blood of the Ancients is a nice alternative. Extra health and extra ammo is nice.

If you use Maliwan guns, then a Maliwan allegiance relic will give you a boost, but most people will use a Sandhawk against raids, and the Dahl relic just isn’t that good.

Against a boss like Pyro Pete, the Bone is the way to go. The slag stys on him, and you can use the grenades for other than slagging.


what drops the Magic missles grenades ?

Sorcerers in TTAoDK dlc.


H3RL-E can drop the Sandhawk on PC using the community patch


Thanks! I knew I’d seen it drop somewhere!

In short BeeHawk on a Cat Maya will out dps any other weapon combination that the game offers.

I like cool down with maya raiding hyperius, because when his robots die (I’m not the greatest at keeping them alive) he gets into a rhythm, and with a grog, phaselock gives you full health, so it’s helpful when he releases constant novas- between that and cloud kill, you can survive for a long time (which I need because I suck balls at raiding)

BotA + leg. Siren + quicken = amazing cooldown (someone probably knows the actual maths behind it) -> just a side note, Leg. Siren boosts ward as well, helps with beehawking

Sorry if you knew all of this, just thought I’d mention it