Mayas character arc

I know its been said before but I need to add my voice to it. Mayas death was awful. For starters you took one of the few characters who have an attachment to another character and killed them off. Why not kill off someone who doesn’t have any major storyline attachments like Athena, or Gaige, or Axton, or the small dude from 2 who’s name I don’t remember. Maya was a dumb choice.

The scene itself was baaaad. Maya who is a super siren, can’t take on Troy? There’s no climax there. There’s no epic fight. She just dies. and for Ava. The most annoying character aside from claptrap. And then ava doesn’t even take responsibility for it… so bad.

I really hope there’s a DLC for finding a way in her siren book to resurrect her. Because if thats the end to her and kriegs story, I’ll be pretty disappointed. The games already a buggy mess playing in split screen, don’t let the writing stay a mess too.

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The death scene was fine. And pretty much expected after Ava’s introduction as Maya’s apprentice. There was no climax because her death wasn’t a climactic moment. And there’s nothing to indicate Maya is “super” relative to other sirens. Indeed, it seemed like she was pretty weak relative to Lilith. Even Troy makes more impressive use of her abilities.

It is a bit odd that we don’t see Ava blaming herself. She does seem childish at that point, and it would be childish to assign her the blame. But that’s more of a problem with Ava’s story arc being underdeveloped. We get some indications along the way that she’s grown as a character, but we don’t see any of the actual growth.

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I see so many of these posts regards Maya, and I must admit I don’t really get it. The story tellers quite obviously had a goal in mind when writing the game.

It seems quite clear to me they wanted to make Ava the next playable Siren for 4. Only X amount of Sirens can exist at once, therefore for their goal they needed a Siren to die to make room for the new playable Siren in 4.

This is why none of the other characters mentioned by the OP would be suitable death replacements, they were not Sirens.

The death scene itself was executed poorly in my opinion, but the death itself was obviously the writing teams goal right from the get go.

I think they made Ava deliberately bratty and immature, so they can develop her in the DLC so we can see her grow into a badass ready for 4 hopefully. If they don’t show her growth and she just go’s from brat to badass in 4 with nothing shown to the player of how, then I would be miffed.

I see a lot of posts asking for a DLC to resurrect Maya, which again I don’t get really. Maya as a playable character was fantastic in BL2, but she was always to me at least one of the dullest actual personalities in the BL universe, right up there with Axton for me on the snooze train.

If were going to magically bring back past characters why waste that glorious wish on Maya? Why not use it to bring one of the more impactful characters back? I would rather wish for the resurrection of Jack, or Scooter personally.

Its like the equivalent of a starving man being offered anything they wanted to eat and instead of wishing for a huge feast they wish for stick of celery.

This is just my opinion of course, but I have seen so many of these Maya threads I just wanted to add my thoughts.

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When they killed Maya i thought they’re trying to bring Ava forward. It’s obvious. But why they wrapped up Lilith too?
Also who got the leech power from Tyreen or Troy?

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Maya’s death was fine. Her power was being leeched and she was doubtless unprepared to defend against it. For all we know she couldn’t defend against it anyway. It’s not like it took ten minutes. Troy grabbed her, which in itself wasn’t going to cause Maya any alarm as she thought she had things under control at that point, and after the leeching started it was too late for her to do anything. I don’t see the problem tbh.

And was she really any better a character than e.g. Axton? I don’t remember her having a particularly memorable story arc.

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No, she wasn’t a particularly original character. However, she was established, beloved and she was “traded” for an absolutely generic character with no development. “A smart, but unwise and unruly teen with huge potential (lost her parents, of course), who gets her/his master in trouble”, we’ve seen this tens of thousands of times.

Let me be clear: being “generic” is not a “crime” per s.e (original content is very, very difficult), if there’s an adequate development. There’s none in case of Ava. She’s appeared, Maya dies, she blames Lilith, and… that’s it… Ava is one of the key figures in Crimson Raiders and she’s leading assault teams, even before she becomes a Siren.

She’s just someone’s pet.

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We’ve already been shown that you can lose your siren powers and still be alive… this could easily have been the way they trade her and Avas powers.

The writing was a poor attempt at serious “shock and awe” which was just poorly done. At least Roland died for an eye for an eye type scenario which had a good cause. This death was just pointless aside from trying to make people sad. Which is not why people play borderlands.

Now if they make a dlc where Ava Krieg and VH go looking for a vault that has the power mixed in with the siren book to bring Maya back, that’d be well written and a really good chance to build Avas character. Maya can come back powerless and her and Kriegs story can advance.

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If they make Ava go in search of Lilith instead of Maya, oh man… wasn’t she blaming Lilith a few minutes ago for Maya’s death? Wasn’t she herself responsible for her teacher’s death?

I doubt they’ll make Ava playable in a Borderlands game, she would just be Maya 2.0 with the same powers and skills.

The only way they can redeem Ava in the series is finding a way for her to bring Maya back, and then having a proper training and learning to be responsible. She must deserve to be a Siren. Else people will always hate her. The writers ignored BL:TPS, they ignored Tales from Borderlands, now they should ignore their own writing for the greater good and use the DLCs to fix the crap they made. There’s still time.

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She seems pretty reconciled with Lilith by the time of the assault on the Cathedral. And, no, she’s not responsible for Maya’s death. Troy and Maya are the only characters with direct agency - and thus responsibility - in her death.

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I was surprisingly unmoved by Maya’s death.
In BL1, 2 and 3 I play Sirens. I have thousands of hours playing Maya.
But the Maya in BL3 didn’t grab me as a character. For whatever reason, the Maya personality and dialog didn’t match with what Maya was in my head, my imagination, so I just didn’t connect with her.
Then she died, and it was, to me, just almost like a random NPC died. Was more bothered by Roland or Scooter’s deaths than Maya’s.
I do, however, have to complement Gearbox’s decisions to kill off characters in the series. It’s risky, but it also makes sense in the environment that’s been created, much evilness and power, people are going to die.
–RoA

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I don’t think this has to be the case though, Not much in the lore discuss the transfer of power between Sirens, there would be nothing to suggest the power is not completely different depending on the host wielding it.

It could also explain some peoples other questions like what happened to Tyreen’s power drain and why Troy could all of a sudden move moons.

It could be something akin to the force where the energy is stronger in some than others making powers stronger or manifest different.

Lots of ways they could make her powers different to Maya’s really if they choose to go that way.

I think everyone’s problem with Maya’s death is that it seems she was written into the story to die. Which is not how Roland’s death was handled at all. Maya’s sole purpose in BL3 was to die. Which imo, is very bad. Due to the writers singular focus on making Maya a plot device for Ava’s terribly down character growth, it was a disservice to maya.

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Troy just had augments, as he also leeched powers from the vault monsters through Tyreen.

But yes the writers and designers can come up with anything and ignore the previous games. But as we saw in Bl3, that doesn’t work so well.

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To be fair the powers being different from person to person would not be breaking any lore from previous games unless I am forgetting something (which is definitely possible been many many years since I played bl1 and a while for bl2 too and my memory sucks.)

I think bl3 is the first game that’s actually shown a power transfer from a known source, the rest of the sirens had it since childhood from an unknown source.

Not disagreeing that a lot of the bl3 stuff has been changed from previous games btw, just think this particular one would not really be rewriting the book so to speak, as we have not seen a direct transfer up to this point.

But her actions arguably contributed to the sequence of events.

She had a great design, voice acting, a more interesting origin story than others (religious cult trying to use her to have control, she escapes and wants to know more about herself and her power).

Yes, they added a little backstory for her, made her look happy, alive and better than before just to add to the frustration of her death.

“You like this character ? LOL SHE DEAD” throught the game : either you don’t care (lucky), you’re annoyed (repetition), you’re annoyed and frutrated (yeah I know, I know I KNOW).
Regardless of the consequences and execution of her death, this is annoying and feels like mockery coming from the writters.

Even if they would bring Maya back (which they won’t), it won’t change the fact that the main campain is unpleasant after her death because the bad jokes are replaced with annoying taunts.

There’s nothing that can fix that other than stop caring and to move on, ignoring dialogues like trying to ignore a mosquito.

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I’ve got to disagree with some of you, I felt her death was unearned. In saying this I love Maya, she’s my favorite character, and what was done to her was wrong. I have no real problem with Ava, but if Maya was just killed to prop her up then I feel insulted. And I know this sounds desperate, but hope beyond hopes that they bring her back.

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I don’t know how many times this has to be said but this is NOT why Maya was killed. She was killed to advance the story. Ava’s relationship with her and the impact Maya’s death had on her was one of the aspects but wasn’t the reason. If Maya hadn’t died the following would have happened:

  • Troy wouldn’t have gained his powers

  • He then wouldn’t have been able to Phaselock Elpis, which means that whole story arc wouldn’t have happened and the urgency to get the remaining Vault Keys wouldn’t have existed

  • Ava wouldn’t have inherited Maya’s powers, which means she wouldn’t have been able to save the three of them when Tyreen buried them (assuming they would even have been there to fight Troy in the first place)

  • If none of the above happened, then Typhon would have had no reason to reach out to contact the Vault Hunters and his whole story arc would have been different

  • Lilith wouldn’t have had to sacrifice herself at the end

  • Maya would have had to have had something else happen to her to explain why we didn’t just unleash our super-siren on the COV

In short, the entire story would have had to have been re-written. Just so Maya wouldn’t die. Not sure why she was so important to merit that

Things would play out very similarly as how it is now if Maya was stil alive. Ava just wouldn’t have inherited the powers, and wouldn’t become leader of the Raiders for no good reason. Which would be a good thing because I can only apply the term Mary Sue onto her once more.

There, I needed 10 seconds to fix one hell of an atrocious plotpoint or 2.

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given that I’ve just explained why perhaps you could do the same to explain why that wouldn’t be the case because from what I can see it just wouldn’t