#41

Exactly. Guns aren’t balanced, so giving enemies that much hp makes is much more obvious. At least in M3, your build would sometimes work and if you’re geared, it’d always work. Now, it feels no different than BL2 UVHM and OP levels. The devs made an effort to promote variety with M1-3. But M4 just undermines that design philosophy.

I have no problem clearing M4 content. I just took my Amara to SS M4 and cleared it easily with a Recursion with +300% Phaseslam anointment. My Moze can still kill GW quickly with a DP Alchemist. But what if I want to use different guns? I already stopped using my Hyperion Moze build for GW. On M3, I could use a Fire Woodblocker when it was +50% AR/SR. I try it out in M4 with the +30% SR and it was a waste of time.

7 Likes
#42

I completely agree that the concept of mayhem is a better one than OP levels. I just think it’s been poorly implemented. Modifiers contradicting each other or the same stat getting nuked by different modifiers. You can go into a map with lots of armoured enemies or boss and roll - corrosive, -Cryo, -elemental and -all gun damage. At which point you are left with … harsh language?

There need to be a set algorithm for determining what can and can’t roll together in a single instance so that people are ‘encouraged’ to switch up their gear, but aren’t left staring at their backpack and realising they don’t have a non elemental assault rifle on their elemental smg build.

We have seen some good progress on this in this new patch and hopefully it will move in the right direction. I’m not convinced M4’s ludicrous healthbar increases are it.

6 Likes
#43

They did and look at the number of threads about get rid of mayhem modifiersz?!!’ Some of those have people asking for a mode that makes the enemies be harder to kill with less of that stuff which is exactly what M4 is.

Like I said I’m not sure what people want. It seems like the number of varied options is a great thing for a game that hasn’t been out that long.

Just can’t make them all happy.

3 Likes
#44

Yup. Sometimes I just scratch my head while reading this forum.

"Mayhem is not challenging! We want challenge! " But somehow every time bad modifier appears - reroll. Yeah, it’s the challenge folks crave…

“It is hard - but it’s not the hard I want”. Right, to me this begins to feel like “No True Scotsman” fallacy. Also, never mind expectation that brand new game mechanics and assets are expected to appear just by ticking the box or moving difficulty slider.

Signed,

‘filthy casual’.

:roll_eyes:

#45

Mind sharing the build? (Sorry… Off topic)

#46

It’s not that it’s hard, because it isn’t. It’s tedious, build braking and not fun.

9 Likes
#47

No way. Mayhem 4 is much better. More health equals more rewards. One buff, one nerf so your build doesn’t get wrecked. Most enemies died too fast anyway. I’d rather fight bullet sponges than have a reflect modifier or weak enemies.

2 Likes
#48

It’s still early, so we need some time to see how things’ll pan out.

2 Likes
#49

I use a seeing red build with cold bore and 10 points red 11 points green, using Scourge swapping. I have a clone anointed scourge and a fire scourge. I proc my kill skills with barrier and I do the clone swap before dropping down and then fire,swap,fire,swap,fire,swap and he dies.

I have executor mod with 2 violent violence 3 playing dirty. it has +18% crit dmg, +31% heavy damage. my snowdrift has +33% aoe dmg and +40% mag size which gives me 2 shots in each scourge. also wearing a re-router shield for 120% bonus amp damage.

So it’s quite gear dependent.

The difference M4 makes is now I have to perfectly hit the crit spot to get the insta kill where before on m3 I could be sloppy with my shots.

1 Like
#50

I agree they are bullet sponges. Why they decided to up them 7x who the hell knows. But why do you need someone to tell you what guns to use? I cannot understand that

3 Likes
#51

I just killed Captain Haunt on Mayhem 4 using an Iron Bear based Moze… I love this patch so far. Lol.

He did take quite some time to down (probably a 10-15 min fight), but he dropped 3 legendaries, so that sort of made up for it.

3 Likes
#52

You just described what challenge is - it’s usually not all fun, rainbows, and unicorns. Simple example - try to qualify for Boston marathon in your age category.

Your build broke - you are challenged to adapt and figure it out. If you don’t like it (not ‘you’ personally, mind you) - perhaps you don’t deserve rewards associated with it.

To put it bluntly - folks who tell everyone how they love challenge and then in the same sentence explain how they re-roll Mayhem modifiers are not being honest. They are looking for exploits and efficient farms, not challenges . IMHO, of course.

5 Likes
#53

Wait a few days until we know what they are, get them, and never touch mayhem 4 again. That’s my plan at least.

#54

Hold on lets not roll everyone who asked for more challenge into the same group who reroll modifiers.

There is an overlap, but there is also a sizable player base who don’t reroll modifiers and want more difficulty.

I’m happy to adapt and improve my build, my objection to m4 is that all they’ve done is increased time to kill. Mayhem 3 modifiers had connotations where I both killed and could be killed quicker than mayhem 4. Modifier sets where enemy damage is up and I’ve been given movement speed to compensate is the type of difficulty I want.

M4 though doesn’t make the enemies more difficult, it just makes me stare at them 3 times longer.

13 Likes
#55

I’ve found it to be super spongy so far and I’m running out of ammo like crazy…

However… the thing to remember is that everyone is going to find new spec and gear combos (especially once the level increase hits) that is going to make it seem easy again. That’s always the way it happens.

#56

Anybody who is saying their build is good enough for M4, is just full of ■■■■. I have the absolute best guns in the game and I run a rakk build which means anointments are up 100 percent of the time.

I was just doing the anvil and ran into three anointed . i fought these dudes first with a binary westerner fire with 125% against badassed yada yada yada and it literally took me roughly 500 rounds to kill one of them. I think took out a fire dictator x6 put it on alt fire, stood right in the dude’s face, which should shred anything, and it was doing noticeably less damage than the binary.

M4 is horrible and the modifiers are boring as hell. They might as well not even be there lol. I guarantee that most players claiming to be having a good time in m4 are using a cheat or a super cheesy build. There is no way it can be left like this. Unless I find out that its scaled to four players too. I guess that would make sense to me and I’d know to try to play in groups.

10 Likes
#57

In my BL experience, if you stay in combat 3X longer, your likelihood of dying usually goes up quite a bit , even if not by the same magnitude. We are probably arguing semantics at this point - it sounds like you want smarter and/or different enemies. Which is fine, but hard to get in a ‘patch’.

4 Likes
#58

Agreed, although this is less relevant in Bl3 than it was in Bl2. Most sustainment skills this time round have conditions that aren’t kill related. Be it damaging frozen enemies, using elemental guns or damaging enemies with grenades.

But this isn’t just a patch this is an extension to the difficulty system. If I can’t hope for clever difficulty increases now then when can I?

MH4 has implemented health modifiers of a similar magnitude to late Borderlands 2. However unlike Bl2 there isn’t a universal debuff mechanic I can begin to incorporate to offset the hp bloat.

I’d rather play a mayhem mode with +400% odd health and shields and +100% enemy damage. That would be ‘simple’ enough for a patch difficulty increase but wouldn’t strangle my momentum as much when I’m trying to mob.

1 Like
#59

DLC, I think, is your best bet. IIRC, new enemy types and mechanics usually made their appearances there.

May be GBX made a mistake by releasing M4 in a patch - perhaps waiting for Mayhem 2.0 would’ve been better. Right now their options of bumping up difficulty were quite limited, I suspect.

Edit: Patch is a delivery mechanism - you are not charging for it , it is not optional etc. It’s also usually reserved for ‘fixes’, not new features. These typically come in ‘releases’, which is what DLCs are in BL case. But I digress…

Edit 2: I think my argument that “patches are not for features” is actually flawed - both Halloween Terror stuff and Maliwan Takedown came in through patches. Oh well.

1 Like
#60

I have only played as Amara so my experience and knowledge are limited but I’ve had little to no problem thus far in M4.

I run corrosive phasegrasp/ties that bind/phasezerker. Carrying a DP Roisen’s Thorns (wish it wasn’t DP), Irradiated DP Laser Sploder, Smart Gun XXL, Electric or Incendiary Cutsman, and Quasar grenades.

Strategy: phasegrasp the spongiest bullet sponge, fill it with bullets, when action skill ends chuck a couple of Quasars two seconds apart to keep everybody off their feet, drop a couple smart gun reloads, and by then action skill is cooled down. Rinse repeat.

Going to go looking for an anointed militant tonight so I may be among the boo hoo crowd tomorrow.

1 Like