Miko Only Real Healer


(Zeitzbach) #81

I love the way Miko is actually designed even as a pure support. This game has many type of support
Heal support (Miko)
Zone & Shield support (Kleese)
Duo support (Reyna)
…Damage support (Ambra)

Miko is fine doing his role as a healer. The issue I really have with him though is how tanky he can be while being faster and harder to hit than most chars in the game because of the small model. Marquis, Ambra are also similiar example of what suffers from the “I’m not that squishy cause my base health/shield are great but I’m also super fast with very small model” issues. Even if you want to kill them, you can’t land most of the hit like you do against Reyna or even land ALL of them on Kleese.

Miko’s survivability certain needs to be looked into more than his healing power. “Heal Thyself” with his self-heal active with +healing stuffs are BS when combined. Add in Fight-or-flight and Miko becomes one of the hardest char to kill especially in a game where the DPS is quite low unless you pick the top tier char. Most chars DPS are just so bad outside casting skills.


#82

Miko needs to be small so it can hide behind the tank. While healing it is a target but unable to retaliate so couldn’t be an effective healer if it was easy to kill.

If any support has too much survivability, it’s Ambra.


(Mattiwarden) #83

True Miko is the slipperiest mother ■■■■■■. I one time played a game in incursion mode where the Miko just kept running through our base and just jumping around, and he’d survive because no one could hit him.


(Zeitzbach) #84

Miko survivability is almost ambra-tier anyway. Both of them need to have their survivability toned down. While Ambra gets a derp shield and huge MS, Miko gets huge self-heal especially while healing with Bio active (H2 right) and Huge MS bonus.


(Fyrefox45) #85

Miko is balanced by his easy crits. If he gets slowed or stunned he’s toast.


(Zeitzbach) #86

His easy crit isn’t that much of a weakness when his hitbox is half the size of what most BBs have. The only time I actually find easy critting him to be a real advantage for me is when I’m playing Benedict who is good enough to be able to kill Miko while he is healing and hiding behind a tank. Even if I miss, the AoE rocket lands or I have a homing one marked so he can’t just run to safetly. Most damagers just suffer from him just sprinting out of range with MS bonus if not 100-0’d right away.


(Fyrefox45) #87

Depends really. OM has a field day with his hitscan rifle. Reyna can keep him slowed nearly indefinitely for anyone to pick off. Shayne is probably my easiest solo kills on him with both a slow, stun and 3x crit damage boomerangs. Marquis punishes him hard. Rath can spin2win. Even Attikus once he gets some levels under his belt keeps up with and shreds him. Etc etc. A list a people who might have a hard time with him seems like it might end in a shorter list lol


(Zeitzbach) #88

Oscar mike doesn’t even have enough DPS unless Miko is standing in the ult and fire field the whole time because of that 200 HPS + huge MS. Good luck getting 100% crit shot on that.

Rath case is an example of something that is so easy to counter that even Miko can do it himself since he has a good 2-second stun that is very easy to land on melee targets. Rath shouldn’t be a char people complain about anyway because he’s such a one-trick pony that can be 50% dealth with by looking at the mini-map.

Reyna needs help to deal with Miko because she’s 0.75 a char without someone for her to support. That and Miko slow is so much better than most slows in the game especially with that H1 right side talent to double the slow power.

Let’s just say most of the cases present require Miko to go derp deep for no reason and try to DPS instead of being a braindead healer.

Everything Miko does already contribute to giving him survivability.

Even his trees contributes to his survivability most of the time. Helix 1 to 7 gives him either more heal (which affects him with H2 right), MS or a CC to help him escape.

Only super combat ninja DPSing Kunai Miko will really die often because they throw all those away for no reason trying to go swag build in PvP.

If you can’t kill an Ambra, lower chance you can kill a Miko. And look at the amount of complaints Ambra get when we discuss how strong her survivability is. They both have nearly as much stacked survivability but Ambra is in the front line while Miko behind a big target when the damage start racking up.


(Fyrefox45) #89

OM without crits, which he will be landing, does 466 dps in 3 second bursts by the end of the game with just his gun, and mushroom doesnt come into play because its gonna have a flame nade on it if its up at all. Miko cant outheal him, though he can jink around and be driven out of the area on occasion.

Reyna being never alone is like miko being never alone lol. It depends on the pairing but Reyna+x should usually beat miko+x.

Rath does require suprise, a late game attikus less so. Marquis just requires a clear los.

People vastly overestimate mikos survivability, especially because while in heal mode he’s adding no damage to a fight.

And I think people just give ambra too much credit because she has that survival burst at the end that you need to save some cc for or spike through and has a totally braindead weapon.


(Zeitzbach) #90

466 in 3 secs isn’t even that great. Miko HPS on himself while healing an ally with bio active is nearing 200 because of all the effect stacking so he can reach 600 heal in 3 seconds. Oscar isn’t as reliable as say, Benedict who can just do jump- Q and fly triple rocket that can kill Miko even if he is hiding behind a tank with ease. Sad part is that the amount of char that can do this is extremely low.

Reyna vs Miko support battle case is special as Reyna is a char who shines with a certain char like Galiea more than Miko especially in skirmishes. However, Miko is much more reliable throughout the whole game. You also have better luck doing range + Reyna (Just get Benedict in general to kill Miko) against Miko whose Slow bomb can be used to kite almost every melee in the game because it’s one of the strongest slows in the game.

Clear LoS isn’t really a thing in this game unless the target is a big one like Kleese/Articus who you can just snipe the chair. Miko is, however, small enough to be blocked by nearly every char in the game and all it takes is knowing where Marquis is sniping from to deal with him.

You shouldn’t pick a pure heal support thinking “I NEED THAT SUPPORT TO DEAL DAMAGE” in mind. Picking Miko because you need to deal damage is why there are so many fail Ninja-Miko around. If you want to deal damage as a support, be an Ambra or a Kleese who does the job of support+damage much better.

It’s not that Ambra has too much credit. She’s a braindead char that has one of the higher DPS for not trying and you will probably have to use your burst anyway to get her low enough while she’s life stealing. The game simply doesn’t have enough DPS to deal with this kind of stacked survivability. Only a few char can deal enough sustain damage for this (Marquis, Benedict, Thorn and passive stacked El Dragon. Every other DPS just get outhealed overtime especially Melka, Deande and Caldarius. (Deande being the greatest offense because she can’t even chase either with below average MS)


(Puunchbag193) #91

If you cant crit miko they is no hope for you i am sorry but that head it huge
As for the second helix chioce that lets you heal yourself with the beam while healing a teammate does need a nerf you each restore you heal to full after a few seconds


(Fyrefox45) #92

Nah the 466 is a second or over 1400 in 3. OM built for damage is ridiculous. That means none of that silly “lets not take full tactical ammo” nonsense so many go for. Hes every bit as dependable as his flying companion at squishy killing. Guess we’ll see how it goes when the game goes live, but I never ran into problems killing or driving off a miko as anyone I played. Even Cal can cause him enough issues to bugger off depending on who hes shadowing, or at least take them on a pointless goose chase.


(firesnakezero201) #93

Ambra can specced as a healer with her number 3 Helix option. The only issue is that it drains 30% of the heal from her health. I haven’t tried it so I don’t how well it actually does as a dedicated healer.


(Gt: YaCantDutchThis) #94

Question: Are there characters that can do that much damage with a skill? Not their ult, just a skill.


(Fyrefox45) #95

Most characters outdo that before skills. 200dps would be considered very low endgame. Thats like reyna pistol bodyshot damage.


(Gt: YaCantDutchThis) #96

Okay thanks.

I feel like a lot of people are saying that Miko heals to much while they have Biosynthesis on but… It’s their skill, of course it increases their healing done by… a lot.
Why isn’t their skill allowed to be just as good as other skills? Why should other skill outdamage Miko’s healing on their skill?
Why should Miko heal less than the damage a character normally does while they are using a skill?

Miko has very low survivability, but when Miko uses their skill they probably survive for at least those 5 seconds. Sounds fair to me.


(Insanity Engine) #97

Since people are talking about DPS, HPS, and other things…I’d like to draw

EVERYONE’S ATTENTION

To this https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/18T8VNgX6iNLhPq30lj7dXppVjzoNcc6fTD6KTwXGDWo/edit#gid=1832219597
I did not make this.

It has information on DPS, HPS, how much it increases by level, and some other hard data. It doesn’t take helix upgrades into account, and doesn’t have information on skill damage, but it’s still good info.

As far as characters who can do 200 damage with a skill, el dragon can do that at level 1 with his body splash. Quite a few characters have 200 damage nukes at level 1, and that’s about as high as level 1 nukes go.


(Zeitzbach) #98

Skill concept is fine. However, the fact that Miko can stack healing given and benefit from it so much compared to other support because of H2 upgrade is why it’s wonked and need to be toned down to bring Miko (and Ambra) in line with other supports when it comes to being rewarded with survivability without even trying.

Miko survivability isn’t even low to begin with.

Poison spore : One of the strongest slow field that can people always spec to also do a 2-sec stun.
Fight or Flight : 30% MS on hit helix meaning you can outrun pretty much anyone and be rewarded for getting hit.

Just these two already gives Miko so much more survivability than other characters in the game. You shouldn’t be dying often at all with a Miko. He’s one of the harder chars to die with in this game. As a Kleese main, a BB that is one or even the easiest chars to kill in this game because of his low health and big chair hitbox, with 16-4 ish win/loss in Incursion after 20 games during PC Beta, going on Miko really shows how Miko has too much for survivability. I really have to question how people are dying with this braindead char.


#99

Why do you keep calling it a braindead character? Healers need survivability. There are still a lot of bad Miko players out there. I think Rath’s “spin to win” is more braindead than anything Miko has.


(Zeitzbach) #100

Healers do need survivability but not Ambra/Miko tier of survivability stacking. Reyna survivability requires a pal. Kleese survivability is a set-up. Miko and Ambra survivability is “I get hit and press a button” to be rewarded.

You can’t exactly say “Miko has a lot of intense mechanic that constantly require the player to think of what to do” either. You just hold secondary to do your job. At least Rath has to know when to go in and out while Spin is on CD because he’s a squishy melee.

Just compare when I play Kleese to Miko

“Where do I set the rift so I can do a rift chain later and not lose all of them before it?”
“Is the lane being pushed or will it be in our faovur? Does this mean the pillar one is better or should I prepare it at my base then”
“Is it a good time to blackhole? Should I just black hole the minion for now and prevent the pushing?”
“My combo will drain my shield so is there a marquis prepared to snipe me? I better throw it quick and hide or that’s 300 health gone.”

Meanwhile, my time on miko.

“Who do I need to hold my beam on and press Biosynthesis?”

It’s like a reverse Ambra “Which enemy do I have to hold my beam on?”