Fire in the skag den has always come up as a separate number for me.
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It’s usually the same for me, but I’m noticing that Experimental Munitions isn’t getting a separate number either. (I was testing normal weapons earlier and was getting bonus fire damage for both crits and the mini-grenades).
I also have three points in Fire in the Skag Den, for a total of 24% bonus fire damage.
I also forgot the Guardian Rank bonus. I have at least 10% grenade damage. My bad. 
With 1.7x grenade damage and 24% fire in the skag den, we get 62K.
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I considered that but even with 15% bonus the max damage I could account for was 56K.
Fire in The Skag Den being condensed into the same number seems really weird to me, however if the numbers add up who am I to question.
I’ll check it out tomorrow with some normal damage guns and see if it works the same way to be sure. As of right now, it seems that even the Experimental Munitions bonus is being added to the grenade damage, which is a bit odd.
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Graveward is also not the best of test dummies as bosses often have hidden resistances and weaknesses.
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I know, but I can’t find anyone who will stand still long enough for consistent tests. I don’t have Kevin anymore. At the very least I can check if it is the same. If it isn’t, we’ll figure something out.
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I’ve ended up collecting a kit of level 10-25 gear that I use for all field testing. Can’t wait for the dummy!
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Wow, thanks for all the replies! I’ve been very busy lately so I haven’t been able to do a lot of in depth testing myself.
There’s a lot of very interesting data here, and as I suspected there seems to be many more variables than expected.
I also believe that guns with multiple projectiles may be able to spawn multiple mini-nades on crits… There seems to be no cool down, and I’ve noticed large jumps in damage occasionally (being what is normally seen) while using Crossroads smg against GW. Ideal testing for this would likely be a Maggie against a stationary target with crit spots…
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I got my hands on a Minesweeper com with splash damage and was able to further test the grenade damage. I only had the com for reference so I’m not 100% sure if this applies for all splash damage, but at least for +% splash damage on the com this works.
Minesweeper Grenade = Crit Damage x (1 + COM Grenade dmg + Guardian Rank) x (1 + Splash Damage + Area of Effect Damage)
Edit: Grabbed a relic with +Area-of-Effect Damage and tested.
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Hahahahahah, forget the cross roads, you should see an Alchemist 
load GeeDubs crit spot with stickies (they can’t crit until they explode) then let the reload happen.
It’s hilarious watching that bar just get chunked.
I tested it with normal guns (a Q-system) and got what seems to be the same result.
I was getting crits (without Guardian Rank abilities messing things up) of roughly 9.9k. (I couldn’t see the rest of the number because of the numbers overlapping. It was incredibly frustrating). Experimental Munitions did 1733 damage, so I’m figuring the crit damage was 9902. (Assuming the multiplier for fire damage against Graveward in M3 is 1.75 - this is a value I need to check).
Fire in the Skag Den did 4525 Fire Damage. Without the multiplier, that means the 24% Fire in the Skag Den Bonus was 2585. Since the bonus is calculated from the base-damage of the mini-nade, that means the base damage was 10733. That leaves a difference of 831 between the mini-nade base damage and the crit damage and the difference is very close to what the Experimental Munitions bonus would be without the fire damage multiplier, but it doesn’t match exactly.
I’m not sure if this is because of rounding or if one of numbers is slightly off.
Okay I’ve now gone and done testing.
The gear and my GR that is relevant to my calculations
II also have C-C-Combo unlocked so that’s another 2% multiplicative buff that I will be including. My actual skill trees are empty except for the 2 minesweeper boosted skills.
So for a body shot where both pellets hit:
Body Shot = base x [1 + Guardian Rank Dmg] x [1 + C-C-Combo]
Body Shot = 113 x 1.1422 x 1.02 = 131.65
We have 2 pellets so
131.65 x 2 = 263.299
Now lets factor in critical hits.
Crit = body shot x [2 x (1 + Guardian Rank Crit) ]
Crit = 131.65 x [2 x (1.1345)] = 298.7
Again accounting for 2 pellets hitting
298.7 x 2 = 597
Now lets account for the micro grenades, remember I have splash and aoe dmg boosts on my com and relic so we account for them too.
Grenade DMG = Crit x [1 + GR Grenade DMG] x [1 + AOE DMG + Splash DMG]
Grenade DMG = 298.7 x [1 + 0.1001] x [1 + 0.33 + 0.28] = 529.07
This was off a single pellet crit. I unfortunately wasn’t fast enough to catch the initial crit on photo. The 54 in the background is Fire in the Skag Den, I can give the calc for that if anyone wants.
Okay all the above was tiring math but I though it necessary for the next part where I want to show that multiple pellets critting doesn’t scale the Minesweeper grenade dmg.
So I got really lucky if you look up post where I show the dual crit number you’ll see 2 grenades dropped.
The blast that follows I did a bad job of capturing on photo
It’s hard to see properly but the number in the background(behind the fire number) is 1058. I’m not sure what the very front number.
1058 is however what we’re interested in as
1058 = 529.07 x 2
This was from the 2 nades we saw dropping so it’s not a matter of inserting the combined crit damage into the formula and applying it to the MS grenade.
I did however want to make sure of this so you’ll find below hidden section that I got a dual crit where 1 nade dropped and was able to capture the resultant damage.
Anyone scouring my images will see a few high value numbers that I didn’t account for, I haven’t had time to work out where they’re from, however I do believe what I have shown is sufficient to see that the grenade scales per pellet and not on the full crits damage.
Edit: forgot to add the pistol to the gear section, it’s there now.
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That’s good to know, although it’s a bit disappointing.
I figured out why I completely screwed this up. There was a second mini-nade that I completely missed when looking at the footage I recorded at 00:58. I went back to watch the clip again because I was pretty sure the Phebert fired two pellets that would both crit at the same time at that distance. That’s the reason the grenade damage was corresponding to the total crit damage. I’m sorry for causing all this confusion with my oversight.
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It scales for the per pellet damage - but of course each pellet will also have an individual chance to proc the mini grenade, which mathematically, scales to the same thing as long as the target doesn’t die from a single shot (which would make the mini-grenade irrelevant anyway).
It’s kind of like the Tombstone on Badaboom vs Nukem in TPS - you get a greater number of smaller crits on a Badaboom but a single more powerful crit on the Nukem. Both have the same effective chance of proccing - and theoretically if the Nukem and Badaboom had the same DPS - would result in the same theoretical dps increase.
EDIT: Also, if using elemental guns, does the elemental multiplier get applied twice to the grenade? (ie. your initial critical hit gets the 1.75x multiplier for flesh, then the grenade scales of the damage and gets the 1.75x multiplier again).
So does the mini grenades count as splash damage? would it possible to proc the splash damage to get grenades back from Means of destruction.
Yes, the grenade seems to inherit it’s element from the gun.
Yes, it seems to count as any normal grenade would. It gains splash, aoe and grenade bonuses and procs Vampyr.
I haven’t checked.
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Pretty sure, Yes.
Weird luck of RNG, I loaded a whole clip of Hellfire into an enemy’s crit spot, and between the splash of Hellfire, the splash of short fuse, and a few Mind Sweeper nades, I went from 3 grenades to 11 too fast to notice.
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Those are the best, and in your case it’s more singularities all over the place!
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