Minus's wish list for improving the item pool

On Class Mods:
There are currently 65 or so different stat bonuses that can roll, 36 of which are brand-specific.

Take all the individual manufacturer-specific rolls for class mods and combine them into brand specialist suites.
So instead of having separate possible rolls for, say, Maliwan gun damage, Maliwan Accuracy, and Weapon Charge speed, you’d have a single “Maliwan Expert” roll that would have bonuses to multiple aspects of Maliwan weapons. Adjust the numbers so they make sense together.

This would keep all the bonuses in the game while reducing the pool of stats by 25. We can go a little further:

Grenadier: Combine Grenade Damage, Radius, and max capacity.
Demolitionist: Combine Splash Damage and Radius.
Deadeye: Combine weapon Accuracy, Handling, and Critical Damage.
Showoff: Combine Action Skill Cooldown and Action Skill Damage.
Stormtrooper: Combine weapon Fire Rate, Reload Speed, and Magazine Size.
Tough Guy: Combine Health regen and +max health.
Aegis: Combine Shield recharge rate, delay, and capacity.

That’s 11 more. This cuts the pool of class mod bonuses by more than half, greatly increases the average quality of the mods, and it makes a lot more of them actually interesting.

On Artifacts:
We can do something similar here.
Take the three different types of elemental-related bonuses (damage, resistance, DoT chance) and combine them, so you’d have a single ability that increases your Cryo damage, Cryo resistance, and Cryo efficiency.
Fit it on the item card by either giving it a fancy name (“Ice Queen”) or writing something vague like “Cryo Elementalist +20”.

On Anointments:
You know what we’re doing here. All the anointments for “when sliding” or “while airborne”: just combine all those into a single anointment. While sliding or airborne, fire rate, accuracy, handling, damage, and crit damage are all increased by (let’s say 30)%. That could be an okay thing that people might enjoy finding and might change their playstyles for.

All those “anointed Operative” bonuses? Just make a single “Anointed Operative” anointment for weapons. You can’t have all the bonuses active simultaneously anyway because they depend on your equipped action skill, so just do away with the RNG and put them all on the same item.
Similar things could be done for other class-specific anointments. Fl4k can only equip one action skill at a time, so it’s harmless to have his “while gamma burst is active” and “while fade away is active” and “after using Rakk Attack” all on the same weapon.
Throw the Attack Command ones on there too. Just do it. Adjust numbers as necessary.

Take the lackluster generic shield anointments like increased movement speed, health regen, action skill cooldown rate, etc. and just combine them into one.

A lot of these combos would have lots of text that wouldn’t fit on the item card. That’s fine, because you can just give each of these packages a name. “Anointed Operative”.
“Anointed Enforcer”, “Anointed Survivalist”, whatever. Don’t tell me that doesn’t work, because we’ve been dealing with ‘red text’ for over a decade now.

This approach simultaneously improves the underperforming modifiers and stops artifically diluting the item pool with lame and unexciting things.

12 Likes

This would definitely need a bunch of tweaking to maintain balance but I think it’s the best way to reduce item bloat that I’ve heard. You would also probably have to adjust drop rates down to compensate for the average power increase, but I would really like to see something like this happen.

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but i have to roll for hp regen, splash damage and magazine size O:

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All very solid ideas in my eyes. I think though, that I would rather see slightly more specialized bonuses on VH specific annoints. I thunkbif they rolled all annoints for an action skill into one annoint for that action skill it would still reduce RNG. So instead of having Enemies Damaged by Rakk Attack take 100% more damage and After Using Rakk Attack, gain 50% crit damage, you would just have annointed Rakk Attack that combined them both. This would give 3 annoints for each VH instead of 6-7.

I do love the idea of rolling generic annointments/passive together though with other synergistic bonuses.

RnGeezes won’t like this though.

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also elemental specialist make no sense at all
just because you are playing a cryo build doesnt mean you need any cryo resistance unless you are using splash weapons
for example with a pure HP build you need fire res and with a high shield build you rather pick shock res

I really miss allegiance relics, it’s like they chopped the relics of previous games into several pieces just to increase RNG.

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I get that this is criticism, but I don’t get the criticism. With my change, you would have the same cryo build as before, but with an added bonus of also having cryo resistance.

Up above, you mentioned HP regen, splash, and mag size (I thought this was tongue-in-cheek). With my proposed change, you could still roll all three of those things, and you would be (10-12 times?) more likely to do so because the pool of abilities would be smaller. Furthermore, those rolls would be accompanied by increased max health, splash radius, fire rate, and reload speed.

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so you are suggesting that you will roll 3 of those combined stats?
i thought you want to reduce it to a single roll that includes a bunch of stats that “fit together”
because that would effectively reduce RNG
but i think i got it now
sounds a bit powercreepy tho :stuck_out_tongue:

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Ohhhhh, you thought I was suggesting that stats should roll in fixed sets of three. No way, I was suggesting that we take multiple stats and roll them up into a single combined stat that would only take up one of the three slots an item can roll.

Something like this, old vs. new:

2 Likes

well, if you reduced the stats of those combined rolls, you could probably balance it
but then it would take away the possibility to really focus on something
if you combined splash radius and damage but to balance that reduce both values, it would hurt pure DPS builds

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Some numbers would need to be tweaked for balance, not all. We can safely combine the ones that don’t directly influence each other (note that we already do combine splash damage and radius on artifacts- radius is a hidden bonus in “Area of Effect Damage”).

Brand-specific groupings would probably need to change. For example, if you increase damage, crit damage, and fire rate, those all multiply together in DPS, which can get out of hand. But there’s little harm in combining Fire damage, Fire resistance, and Burn chance all together.

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i think that would be one of the greater harms
as i said before. an elemental focused build doesnt require elemental resistance
most people just wanna go for pure dps and for example a RAD build with a red suit doesnt require any RAD resistance at all. so it would be completely wasted numbers

I still feel like maybe we’re misunderstanding each other. Here, this is an artifact I used forever:

On the right is what it would be with my changes. How does that make us worse off than the original?

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well in this case not since you wont decrease any value there
i am obviously misunderstanding you a lot

Im mostly fine with Relics, you need the RNG to make good rolls feel more special! BUT The mismatched partial manufacturer rolls are just too bad and dilute build space. I would be happy if there could only be one Manufacture roll instead of all 3!

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yea
it would already help a lot if only 1 manufacturer can roll on an item card at once

I edited an old image made by someone else (forget who, sorry!) on this forum.

The simplest two changes with the biggest overall impact would make the stat pool into this:

It doesn’t look like a big change, but this makes it roughly 5-10 times more likely(not good at math) to find specific combinations you’re looking for, and also makes other combinations that you weren’t necessarily looking for even better.

A more extreme version would look something like this:

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That’s precisely what they did. Many of the anoints and class mod modifiers are weak throwaways so that the good ones can be more rare. Why have a 0.1% chance to get what you want when throwaways can make it 0.01%?

The +weapon damage modifier is universal. It makes sense to me that pistol damage, or smg damage, etc, has a greater percentage increase because it is specialized. But get an equally specialized BRAND modifier? Oh, that one only gets 1/3 the damage buff as the universal one. Clearly a purposeful throwaway modifier. And BECAUSE it was designed to be specifically that, I can’t imagine GBX compressing these down to improve rng for the better modifiers.

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It’s okay to have them in the pool (because you can theoretically stack general weapon damage, pistol damage, and brand-specific damage to get a huge bonus to your very favorite gun), I just wish it was all less ridiculous.

Even if you did get a roll of all three, and the brand damage was higher, the diminishing returns of stacking the same kind of damage would still come into play. Splash dmg plus weapon dmg or weapon crit plus weapon dmg would still outperform. The brand damage modifier, as it is, is only functioning to pollute the pool to make better modifiers rarer.