Mission Levels in Co-op

This is probably a bit TL;DR but I’ll post anyway because I’m interested even if no one else is :roll_eyes:

I’m unsure how mission levels are going to work when you choose to have “relative levelling” turned on in co-op. I don’t know if that’s the right description but I mean the ability for a L10 and a L15 character, say, to play together seamlessly.

The only co-op game I’ve played that uses this “relative levelling” system is Dead Island. That game gives each mission a difficulty rating rather than an absolute level. So, if a mission is rated “Hard” it will be hard relative to each player’s level. Give a mission an absolute level and you get problems.

As far as I can tell, from the BL3 gameplay I’ve watched, missions have levels in the traditional Borderlands way. Normally, that would mean you could go into a mission over-levelled and have an easier time than being on or under-levelled. How does that make sense when the game adjusts itself to the level of the characters playing?

For instance let’s take a couple of players, A and B. A has blasted through the main missions only and is L10. B has reached the same point in the game but has done all the side missions and is L12. The next mission is L11. A should find it tough but B should find it easier.

But what happens when they get together in co-op? The “relative levelling” should mean that they are doing similar amounts of damage relatively (obviously!). However, if A hosts, the mission will be tough for them, so will B find the mission harder? Conversely, if B hosts, will it make it easier for A? If this adjustment doesn’t happen, then B will be doing more damage than A, which is exactly what is trying to be avoided.

As an adjunct to that, how is enemy XP decided? Will enemy levels, and, hence, their XP value, be dictated by mission level, as is usual in Borderlands? If a L5 player joined a L20 player doing a L20 mission, the game should balance the relative damage they do but will the L5 player get the L20 XP for enemy kills? If so, that’s a “good” way to level up quickly.

As a bit of an aside, while checking this out, I did notice that rewards are no longer listed on the mission “cards”. This does leave open the possibility of variable XP rewards according to character level. Or, perhaps, none at all, with the mission gameplay providing the reward.

Does anyone know how this is going to work? I suspect not, except for Gearbox :smiley: I’ll be interested to see their solution.

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If host is level 10 and the mission is lvl 12, that’s means the enemies should be at lvl 12 (+2 vs host), if second player will be lvl 20, his enemies should be lvl 22.

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For ennemies and loot it will be pretty much straightforward. Like @GrzesPL stated. Mission level in Borderlands, beside giving you an idea of ennemies level doesn’t really matter much. Could be more percentage based than “absolute numbers”. We’ll see.
My guess is experience points bonus for completing missions will also be “adjusted”. But I could be wrong.

What will be interesting to see is mission rewards. If you join a host that is much higher or lower level. Will you get the reward at your level. That could make for interesting farming options.
I’m starting to think areas (and corresponding missions) might not be level locked like what we know of Normal and TVHM. It could very much work somewhat like UVHM from the start.

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I hope it will works that way. Side missions (and Story) and enemies in it should scale to player level.
Right now in BL2/TPS you are pretty much always OP to Story missions or very OP to side missions if you are doing or skipping side missions.

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…And then you end up toward the end of story with nothing good to farm. Not a bad strategy from the devs but…
Lvl 48 Harold, Kerblaster, Lyuda and FotFH!
Hell yeah!:grin:

FotF is the best example. It’s always underleveled.

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And should the reverse apply? Say the L20 was doing a L15 mission and the L10 joined them. The L20 host will be facing enemies at -5. So, should the L10 face enemies at L5 (L10 - 5)? That’s an easy way to beat a higher level mission for the L10.

I agree. In my example above, the L10 will have an easy time tackling a mission of a much higher level. Should the reward be at his level, L10, or at the level he was effectively playing at, L5.

If you check the gameplay from the reveal event, you’ll see that the mission cards do have a level on them. It was this that prompted me to think about the level issue.

As for enemies leveling to the player, it’s hard to tell precisely. However, checking out Derch’s Zane video, I noticed that the Gigamind boss was L11, as was Zane. If the mission/enemies were leveling up, you’d expect a boss to be at a higher level than the player. This makes me think it was mission level based.

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I hope all the side mission will scale to minimum player level.

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That’s why I think it could be more percentage based than absolute lvl value. Or some kind of proportional.

Missions have levels but what this level is based on we don’t know yet. We can speculate though.

I’ll give you that.

I think Destiny does it for some activities. Not sure but it seems to work out there.

But depending on how Gearbox does it, it could be that if you’re on the high end of the spectrum regarding the mission, you might have a slight edge (hit harder and take less damage) perhaps.