What’s the difference between base health and shield health?
@khimerakiller got it
Ok, but so buffs to health only effect health granted from adaptive shields and RR, or is that supposed to be added to base health BEFORE the buffs are considered?
Just like the formula shows
Shouldn’t it be:
(Base health + shield health) x (1 + skill bonus% + relic bonus% + bar bonus%) + com bonus
and not
Base health + shield health x (1 + skill bonus% + relic bonus% + bar bonus%) + com bonus?
Yes it is; The bonuses from skills, relics and bar applies to both the base health and the shield’s health.
So class mods offering health are less beneficial to Krieg than they appear at first glance, right?
Yes, that’s the same with the other vault hunters aswell (although it’s more noticeable with Krieg).
Argh, I just tested my gear and I found my Anshin shield is giving me more benefits than my relic, and the only reason my slab mod is helping me is because it’s beefy. My grief is now that my vitality relic, which I have never removed once I got it (blue level 23, claiming to give +24% health), accidentally got switched out, and my maximum health (which was 20793) is reduced to 18433. That’s only 12%!! What is going on?
Could you list all of the gear, skills, and BAR you have that effect your max health. And their respective percentages or flat bonus.
Oh and your base health.
Respecced to 0 skill points spent and totally naked, I have 7107 health at level 36 (Krieg). I have 9.1% bonus BAR (not sure how to turn that off but I know it’s possible).
- Still unspecced to** 0 skills**, I have 10219 health when I equip my rough rider (+2852 card bonus). That’s odd, since this is a about a 3% difference from 9959 (which is 7107 + 2852), not 9% from BAR. If I unequip the shield and add my relic (+ 25.2% bonus), I have 8749; with the RR and the relic I have 12580. If I unequip both and add my Mod (Beef Slab: +3 FtM which does not proc since I’m still unspecced + 720 Health) I have 7827. I have 9469 when I equip the relic with the mod. 10939 with the mod and the RR. All 3 together give me 13299.
- Then I spec back up. The relevant skill is FtM, which I max to 5/5. Naked, I have 10365. That’s interesting, since that seems to be about 44% more than 7107. Equipping only my Mod gives me 13039. Removing the mod and equipping only the relic gives me 12007. Oddly enough, mod and relic together give 14681 – so it seems that the relic, again, does not add its bonus additively to the mod. Mod and RR shield give 18433. Relic and RR give 17263.
Fully specced and equipped with all my gear, I have 20793.
Can anyone explain?
Thank you much in advance
Formula for the base health:
base_hp = 80 * (1.13 ^ char_level)
at 36:
base_hp = 80 * (1.13 ^ 36) ≅ 6514.992984572972
Formula for total health:
total_hp = (base_hp + shield_hp) * (1 + skills + relic + BAR) + classMod
total_hp = (6514.9930 + 2852) * (1 + 0.091) ≅ 10219.389346169111
total_hp = (6514.9930 + 0) * (1 + 0.091 + 0.252) ≅ 8749.6355782815
total_hp = (6514.9930 + 2852) * (1 + 0.091 + 0.252) ≅ 12579.8715782815
total_hp = (6514.9930 + 0) * (1 + 0.091 + 0.0) + 720 ≅ 7827.857346169112
total_hp = (6514.9930 + 0) * (1 + 0.091 + 0.252) + 720 ≅ 9469.6355782815
total_hp = (6514.9930 + 2852) * (1 + 0.091 + 0.0) + 720 ≅ 10939.389346169111
total_hp = (6514.9930 + 2852) * (1 + 0.091 + 0.252) + 720 ≅ 13299.8715782815
respectively.
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Basically what @Maveco took the time to say. Everything is working how it is suppose to. What messed up your results was the fact you couldn’t turn off the 9.1% from your BAR and you assume that is was multiplicative with your relic, when it is actually additive (or you assumed it was your base).
Base Health & BAR
- 6515 x (1+0.091) = 7107
- ((7107 / 6515) - 1)x100 = 9.1%
Base Health & Relic
- 6515 x (1+0.252) = 8157
- ((8157 / 6515) - 1)x100 = 25.2%
Base Health & BAR & Relic
- 6515 x (1+0.091+0.252) = 8750
- ((8750 / 6515) - 1)x100 = 9.1% + 25.2% = 34.3%
The mistake you made was using the BAR buffed health as your base line, when it was already buffed by something.
On PS3-4 it is the triangle button to turn of you BAR while in the BAR menu. For the XBoxes it should be the (Y) button. And for PC I forgot, but on every system it tells you what button to “Toggle BAR” which basically means turn it off or on.
The default is Q for disabling BAR stats.
Wow thank you for this incredibly detailed and very helpful reply! Thank you!
Sorry, I am so bad at math. I don’t think I will be able to get good enough at it any time soon to be able to pose the question in my mind in the right way – sorry.
I’m still going to try, however.
A part of me (the part that doesn’t understand math enough) interprets the “%” in “+x%” bonus to health incorrectly. I had imagined that all the %s were treated much like the bonus from Feed the Meat apparently is treated.
I still can’t quite figure it out, but it appears that the bonus to % from relics is less relevant than the bonus % from skills. If that even makes sense.
I guess I am trying to figure out what you are telling me and how that effects my choices.
I want to maximize my health, since I enjoy survivability, have FtM, and I play without a shield (just obtained the RR). So bonus to health from shield gets amplified by FtM, if I understand you correctly, but the bonus from the relic does not?
So am I right: bonus to health from relic is not necessarily so important? Bonus to health from mod also not, but only important insofar as it boosts FtM? Otherwise any tips (for Krieg? surely different from my other main, Gaige?)?
THANK YOU
Sorry, I just noticed I messed up the formula for health calculation, I posted
total_hp = (base_hp + shield_hp) + (1 + skills + relic + BAR) + classMod
when instead it should be
total_hp = (base_hp + shield_hp) * (1 + skills + relic + BAR) + classMod
although the formula is wrong, the results from all the calculations aren’t so I’ll edit my previous post and change the wrong ‘+’ for ‘*’ (you can copy-paste maths expressions into google search and it will calculate the results for you by the way incase you didn’t know already).
About the importance of health modifiers, the mod from relics is just as important as the mods from skills wich are as important as the health mod from badass ranks, that is, FtM at 5/5 will add as much health as a vitality relic with +50% health or enough badass ranks for a +50% health, these all additive bonuses.
Looking at the formula
total_hp = (base_hp + shield_hp) * (1 + skills + relic + BAR) + classMod
suppose you have don’t have a shield with +health (adaptative shields, rough rider, etc.) and no classmod, this is how the formula would look if you had +50% heath from a skill
total_hp = base_hp * (1 + 0.5 + 0 + 0)
= base_hp * (1 + 0.5)
now if the +50% came from a relic
total_hp = base_hp * (1 + 0 + 0.5 + 0)
= base_hp * (1 + 0.5)
finally, if it came as a bonus from your badass ranks
total_hp = base_hp * (1 + 0 + 0 + 0.5)
= base_hp * (1 + 0.5)
as you can see, the results would be the same regardless the origin of that +50% health
Bonus from skills and relics are just as important.
If you’re having a hard time understanding the formula, just replace the values with simpler ones and toy around with it.
Let’s say that your base health is 10
Your shield gives you 6
Your skills add 50%
Your relic gives 50%
And your COM gives you 4 extra
Forget BAR for now
So that means (10 + 6) * (1 + .5 + .5) + 4
Easier to solve now. Juste play with it a bit, remove a few bonus and see the results, you’ll see which has a lot of impact and which doesn’t.
The importance of each is relative: right now the thing that has the biggest impact is the shield, but if you didn’t have any skill boost, the relic would be the biggest contributor.
Thank you very much.
Now I think I understand better. The updated formula now makes sense to me.
The only purely “additive” bonus that is not affected by +% bonuses is the bonus health from mods, such as slab. I have been using slab so far, because I am playing a shield-less Krieg and want to max health – but the bonus from the mod seems negligable so far, since it is not multiplied by my skills and relic. So it might make sense to look for a different mod – purely from that perspective – right?
But I have noticed that the slab mod seems to be the only one which offers beef bonuses (bonus to FtM). Am I wrong?
If I’m right, then this mod may be good just for that bonus – I love ++ to FtM.
Or do torch class mods come with Beef bonuses?
So I think I will be sticking with my health relic until I find something better (but what? I mean I can’t kill a raid boss to get one of those legendary Blood things, and haven’t found a legendary sickle thing yet – I’m still in TVHM). Are there any beef bonuses on anything but a slab? Any other suggestions?
Thank you very much
The only class mods that buff Feed the Meat are the Slab and Legendary Psycho but you might think if you wouldn’t get better results with more specific class mods such as a crunch, blister, sickle or toast; The class mods guide on krieg’s sub-forum is worth a read.
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OK thank you very much.
Since I don’t really use grenades or explosives that much (I don’t use Bloodlust so far), that would leave sickle or toast – but since I haven’t specced into Hellborn yet, that pretty much only leaves sickle, and honestly I’m not sure I need more melee bonuses now, since if I don’t one-shot enemies in BXR then it’s two shots. I guess slab and survivability are my cup of tea.