Mod benefits not applying properly?

Borderlands 2 Gameplay Discussion (Spoilers!)
#1

So I’m still running around wearing green stuff, but it’s all good. I recently updated a green Beef Slab mod a couple of levels – gaining 300 HP. When I checked, I actually gained… 300 HP. Those 300 were not affected by my blue vitality relic (+23%) or Feed the Meat (+80%). Is Beef Slab applied last, after all of these things? If so, it seems by far less of a good idea than I had imagined until now, maybe I need to switch?

(EDIT I just double-checked and bought my old mod back from the vending machine. The level 27 beef slab mod gave me 455 HP, the level 30 one gives me 720, both an identical +3 to FTM. When I switch mods, I gain 264 max health. That seems really odd to me, I would have thought I would gain the benefits of 23% relic and 80% FTM.)

#2

It depends on the order of operations. Idk which is supposed to be done first though…been wondering myself, so far too lazy to test.

#3

My test seems to show that the health mod is MUCH less promising than I had imagined. But then I am a newb and hope I am making a mistake and someone can show me the error of my ways

#4

Healy bonuses from come are not effected from boosts.

Base health + shield health x (1 + skill bonus% + relic bonus% + bar bonus%) + com bonus.

So the com bonus is kinda like amp damage but there are no multiplicative shield bonuses to boost it.

#5

What’s the difference between base health and shield health?

#6

Base health - The health your character has with no gear, skills, or BAR on.

Shield health - Health from Adaptive shields or the Rough Rider.

I think this is what Derch means.

1 Like
#7

What’s the difference between base health and shield health?

@khimerakiller got it

#8

Ok, but so buffs to health only effect health granted from adaptive shields and RR, or is that supposed to be added to base health BEFORE the buffs are considered?

#9

Just like the formula shows

#10

Shouldn’t it be:
(Base health + shield health) x (1 + skill bonus% + relic bonus% + bar bonus%) + com bonus
and not
Base health + shield health x (1 + skill bonus% + relic bonus% + bar bonus%) + com bonus?

#11

Yes it is; The bonuses from skills, relics and bar applies to both the base health and the shield’s health.

#12

So class mods offering health are less beneficial to Krieg than they appear at first glance, right?

#13

Yes, that’s the same with the other vault hunters aswell (although it’s more noticeable with Krieg).

#14

Argh, I just tested my gear and I found my Anshin shield is giving me more benefits than my relic, and the only reason my slab mod is helping me is because it’s beefy. My grief is now that my vitality relic, which I have never removed once I got it (blue level 23, claiming to give +24% health), accidentally got switched out, and my maximum health (which was 20793) is reduced to 18433. That’s only 12%!! What is going on?

#15

Could you list all of the gear, skills, and BAR you have that effect your max health. And their respective percentages or flat bonus.

Oh and your base health.

#16

Respecced to 0 skill points spent and totally naked, I have 7107 health at level 36 (Krieg). I have 9.1% bonus BAR (not sure how to turn that off but I know it’s possible).

  • Still unspecced to** 0 skills**, I have 10219 health when I equip my rough rider (+2852 card bonus). That’s odd, since this is a about a 3% difference from 9959 (which is 7107 + 2852), not 9% from BAR. If I unequip the shield and add my relic (+ 25.2% bonus), I have 8749; with the RR and the relic I have 12580. If I unequip both and add my Mod (Beef Slab: +3 FtM which does not proc since I’m still unspecced + 720 Health) I have 7827. I have 9469 when I equip the relic with the mod. 10939 with the mod and the RR. All 3 together give me 13299.
  • Then I spec back up. The relevant skill is FtM, which I max to 5/5. Naked, I have 10365. That’s interesting, since that seems to be about 44% more than 7107. Equipping only my Mod gives me 13039. Removing the mod and equipping only the relic gives me 12007. Oddly enough, mod and relic together give 14681 – so it seems that the relic, again, does not add its bonus additively to the mod. Mod and RR shield give 18433. Relic and RR give 17263.
    Fully specced and equipped with all my gear, I have 20793.
    Can anyone explain?
    Thank you much in advance
#17

Formula for the base health:

base_hp = 80 * (1.13 ^ char_level)

at 36:

base_hp = 80 * (1.13 ^ 36) ≅ 6514.992984572972

Formula for total health:

total_hp = (base_hp + shield_hp) * (1 + skills + relic + BAR) + classMod

total_hp = (6514.9930 + 2852) * (1 + 0.091) ≅ 10219.389346169111

total_hp = (6514.9930 + 0) * (1 + 0.091 + 0.252) ≅ 8749.6355782815

total_hp = (6514.9930 + 2852) * (1 + 0.091 + 0.252) ≅ 12579.8715782815

total_hp = (6514.9930 + 0) * (1 + 0.091 + 0.0) + 720 ≅ 7827.857346169112

total_hp = (6514.9930 + 0) * (1 + 0.091 + 0.252) + 720 ≅ 9469.6355782815
total_hp = (6514.9930 + 2852) * (1 + 0.091 + 0.0) + 720 ≅ 10939.389346169111
total_hp = (6514.9930 + 2852) * (1 + 0.091 + 0.252) + 720 ≅ 13299.8715782815
respectively.

1 Like
#18

Basically what @Maveco took the time to say. Everything is working how it is suppose to. What messed up your results was the fact you couldn’t turn off the 9.1% from your BAR and you assume that is was multiplicative with your relic, when it is actually additive (or you assumed it was your base).

Base Health & BAR

  • 6515 x (1+0.091) = 7107
  • ((7107 / 6515) - 1)x100 = 9.1%

Base Health & Relic

  • 6515 x (1+0.252) = 8157
  • ((8157 / 6515) - 1)x100 = 25.2%

Base Health & BAR & Relic

  • 6515 x (1+0.091+0.252) = 8750
  • ((8750 / 6515) - 1)x100 = 9.1% + 25.2% = 34.3%

The mistake you made was using the BAR buffed health as your base line, when it was already buffed by something.

On PS3-4 it is the triangle button to turn of you BAR while in the BAR menu. For the XBoxes it should be the (Y) button. And for PC I forgot, but on every system it tells you what button to “Toggle BAR” which basically means turn it off or on.

#19

The default is Q for disabling BAR stats.

#20

Wow thank you for this incredibly detailed and very helpful reply! Thank you!
Sorry, I am so bad at math. I don’t think I will be able to get good enough at it any time soon to be able to pose the question in my mind in the right way – sorry.
I’m still going to try, however.
A part of me (the part that doesn’t understand math enough) interprets the “%” in “+x%” bonus to health incorrectly. I had imagined that all the %s were treated much like the bonus from Feed the Meat apparently is treated.
I still can’t quite figure it out, but it appears that the bonus to % from relics is less relevant than the bonus % from skills. If that even makes sense.
I guess I am trying to figure out what you are telling me and how that effects my choices.
I want to maximize my health, since I enjoy survivability, have FtM, and I play without a shield (just obtained the RR). So bonus to health from shield gets amplified by FtM, if I understand you correctly, but the bonus from the relic does not?
So am I right: bonus to health from relic is not necessarily so important? Bonus to health from mod also not, but only important insofar as it boosts FtM? Otherwise any tips (for Krieg? surely different from my other main, Gaige?)?

THANK YOU