Moding under remasterd (questions)


(Ta Erog) #1

Even though I can’t wait to play the remastered single player story again.
I am even more interested in moding.
And thus raises allot of questions.

Things we more or less know (correct me if I am wrong)

  • Moding will be supported officially and through steam workshop.
  • There will be moding tools (with UI) and dev support!!
  • Some of these tools require 3rd part programs (3ds max, graphics
    editors etc)
  • The workflow path will be to create new game assets (and not
    pulling them from the games to edit, ie one way street)
  • That allot of the engine and all of the graphic assets have been
    totally overhauled. There will be a map editor.
  • The .dae format will be used for some 3d assets. (specificity
    the flavour 3ds MAX outputs)

Some questions I have that should be easy to answer. (some might have been doable before but often it was fighting uphill, any mod dev help here to simplify would be well received)

  • What version of 3ds MAX is the scripting geared toward? (Max can get
    funky on version comparability)
  • What version of LUA is being used?
  • Is the “chance” based combat system in place? or is a simulation
    based system in place? or something in-between?
  • With the chance system how are subsystems handled? ie if you shoot
    the main hull is there any chance of hitting a subsystem? or if the
    subsystem is being shot at any missed shots hit the hull? I forgot
    how HW2 handled it (A mod idea I had involved using the buildable
    subsystems as hull armor/weapon/engine/extras mounts points, and the
    “core” of the ship was just a small framework where you added all
    main hull components. So behaviour of incoming weapons would play a
    big role on if and how those big subsystems are handled. (any info
    here would be great)
  • I still have a old xls spreadsheet with scripts from HW1 days that a
    dev made that was invaluable to deal with mass ship stat
    modification. It made it very easy to change/tweek ships for balance
    and view them vs each other. Something like that or better would be a
    great asset. Is something like that planned as a tool?
  • Will there be a ability to change/mix game rules/styles? Like
    elements of HW1 like parallel ship building and hw2 subcomponents?
    formations and non formations? or is this just all script based? etc

Things I would like to see (and I am sure others will also)

  • To be able to give any ship special abilities or more then one.
  • Extendible special abilities, the moding ability to add new special
    abilities.
  • To have basic mod support for shielding (if they can’t be added robustly
    by moders), permanent default attribute and momentary special
    ability. recharge, ( I am sure all sorts of modders would love
    this)
  • To be able to have a weapon shot spawn another weapon(s) (with
    additional controls like type, number and spread) I know there are
    some capabilities for this but they where limited to mainly misses
    and mines. Bomb pumped laser comes to mind, but also shotgun like
    weapons, more controllable mervs etc. (some other games have had very
    robust support here)
  • More robust repair and docking features. (again elements exited and
    people did some great stuff but there where also allot of painful
    limitations.)
  • Access to the AI some moders are very good at extending this (look at
    what was done with SupCom)

That is it for now, I would love some answers , but even hints or simple Yes/No’s would be useful for now.
Also I am sure others can come up with more to add here. lets see them!


(BitVenom) #2

I think the vast majority of this is hard to answer at the moment - in that it’s premature for us on many fronts. I’ve said what I think I can about the tools and process - and am VERY interested to hear what tools people have access to and want to use - as that’s maybe the biggest thing that will affect how involved passionate artists and scripters will be able to get.

So don’t misconstrue silence for a few weeks as we dive headlong toward the 25th as avoidance - it’s just a bunch of questions with answers that will be drawn from a pool of extremely busy people.


(Ta Erog) #3

Understood,
But some of the questions where rather low bar and have been asked before, also should be very easy to answer even vaguely. ie has the scripting language been updated from what it was? (as that was a big source of problems before) I would assume yes, and do not even need to know what version just that is has been just that is has been.
Others sure, (and I sort of called that out a bit) where expecting a non answer a this time but wanted to fill out a full list off the top of my head that I would need to know before moding - organizing thoughts.
And some detail has already come out, as the scripts for MAX, even the map file format. So some real detail is being released (from you :wink: ). So version or even range of versions seem reasonable?

To answer your question,
I have Photoshop CS6, a old copy of MAX ~6? and access to newer one 2014. Access to Modo. and have a old version of lightwave and other free 3d editors. I have MS office, Various IDEs and text editors. Basic all around tools for moding.
Possibly you should open the thread and have people list what tools they have or have access to, that they are used to using and who has expertise in scripting/plugins for these tools that may be a resource in making the tools work in your framework. if given what exactly is needed I am sure people can help extending the tools.

I have MODed for quite some time and have done most anything needed from modeling/texturing, to artwork, scripting, Testing, and balancing. (the thing I draw the line on is reverse engineering - can’t stand doing that.) I may be able to help debug a max script.

If there are additional tools we need, let the community know. We just need information or an idea if that information will be freely given when there is time. (the latter would be just as good at this point)

So I would say again what version of MAX? even what version you are using and the knowledge that it has not been tested on other versions would be quite useful for a initial ball park idea of what could be compatible. Then people with different versions can try it out and report to the community etc.
LUA version newer then what was in HW2?
Access to the AI, a yes, no, I do not know?
The combat system used? HW2, HW1, Both, Nether, something new? no need to go into detail.

A few of these should be easy to answer others you may not have access to and that is fine. But then again I can wait if it is truly that busy, I am just eager like others to start tooling up.
Heck I just started to convert, re-rig, and texture a few old B5 models just to get back into the swing of things. The idea that we may not have to wait for a year for some brave soles to pick apart and reverse engineer the needed file formats has me quite excited to get going and mod. :smile:


(Taiidan Republic Mod) #4

I think you might have already seen it, but there is some helpful info in here:

http://forums.gearboxsoftware.com/showthread.php?t=409182&page=1

I for one am hopeful that whatever tools Gearbox produce can be shoe-horned into Gmax, for those who do not have access to 3DS Max. Failing that, people managed to produce tools in the past for HW1 and HW2 and it was possible to get ships in game using milkshape and other modelling programs. Even if the Gearbox tools are max-orientated, that doesn’t mean that there will never be any other options…

Can anyone give us any information on what the timescales might be for the release of these modding tools?


(Ta Erog) #5

Yes, I did a search. lot of good information there, but missing important parts.
PS. I expect a newer version of MAX is the used version since the use of .dae. So if we know that we can see what makes that version of .dae for max special and port the format to another app if needed.
People will not know how much time for 3rd party tools until we know what it entails and how much is freely given. reverse engineering a compressed file format is a real P in the A. So, if that is the case then it is completely dependent on a kind and skilled person with ALLOT of extra time.


(Major Stress) #6

What i would like to see the “code monkeys” make is something similar to Delphy’s Homeworld Ship Editor, or even HOD edit though we know there may be no hods this time.

I use 3dsmax 2011. If the assets can be edited natively in an existing program like 3dsmax that would be a good thing too.


(Ta Erog) #7

What I have been seeing more and more of is using Max (or other 3d editor) for most all of the textured and rigging. Then export using a custom script or exporter. and optionally run through a packaging/compressing tool.
From what I am hearing (could still be wrong) is that this is looking similar. and .dae is a easy text format but uncompressed so I doubt it is some new format used in game but one that is easily converted into a game asset by a tool and a convenient export from max
So, Max to .dae and external tool or max script using external tool for final one shot export. (note the scripts/tools could generate multiple export files like the HOD, resized and packed textures,etc . . . from the single MAX scene)
Either way I expect it is be much simplified. (they even said some of the tools have UIs :smiley:)


(Tegates) #8

I know that with the release coming out and the delay in the modding tools there is a bit of silence. But it would be really cool to get like a demo pack of assets ahead of time that we can use to base assets off of while we wait for the actual tools to appear. Just thinking how nice it would be to actually work with a framework of what the tools will be optimized for ahead of time so that it is easier to just dive right into actually creating maps and what not with the tools when they get released.


(Homdax) #9

There is only one place to discuss the HW modding and what might change and how to solve it, and that is Tanis Shipyards at RB forums where HW modding was born.

We are in the works, prepping for the info that may come from GearBox and will take it from there.


(Ta Erog) #10

Are you all going to be making another sub area for HWR only modding? I tried logging back in but my old account was missing. bummer, but no big deal making another. (strike that - I think I know why - I used a old email account I no longer have because of the crazy restrictions they have, also this forum is currently blocked from used by my employers. what a pain in the ass)

Also I am sure there will be a modding thread here frequented by the current developers. So while I respect the work done there and will still be done there. “Only” may be a bit much :wink:


(Homdax) #11

I am certain loads of the Classic remakings will take place using info posted at Tanis (whenever available), but, as you say, the devs of Remastered are probably going to be here more than there, so when that is done, we might see a migration towards this forum. We should aspire to have relevant tech info available on both though.

Somehow I doubt the GearBox devs are going to be enthusiastic about moving around in two places, one of them being outside GearBox control, EULA and such.


(Ta Erog) #12

Wow, rereading 10 year old posts I did . . .


#13

RelicNews still uses vBulletin for their forums, so I would recommend going there instead.

Also, I didn’t realize GB was releasing a map editor. If it supports scripting that would be great because I created a lot of map scripts and the map editor I wrote is incomplete and potentially buggy. :wink:


(K6un23r) #14

Interesting…

I had a preview of this game around 2003 (old HW Classic) and quite excited with the Star Wars : Warlord Mod.

I had a talk with a well known veteran of the game in STEAM and he claims the gameplay element in HW2 and HW Remastered might not be up to my expectations so I was told that a wait and see is the best option for me. It basically depends on the original writers of the SW: Warlords mod to tweak their distribution for HW Remastered.

This game made it to the top 5 in my list in STEAM so I’ll be keeping a close watch… I hope I don’t get an AC:M result.