Moze and her sustain

So , in the latest hotfix Gearbox slightly nerfed Moze’s Bloodletter COM, adding Shield Recharge Delay and reducing Shield Recharge Rate. I assume it was intended to fix the immortal build with low lvl Stop Gap, but Gearbox comment on it also brought an interesting point for me to discuss.

They said that “intended use of this class mod, which is to heal shields manually, not automatically”

But the thing is, Moze really lacks sustain in 2 of her passive trees. Yes, Vampyr is really great and all, but it kinda makes no sense for me to have a legendary COM which synergises only with ONE specific build. There is no hp/shield regen whatsoever in Bottomless Mags tree, and in SoR trre we have: 2 passive sustain skills(Behind the Iron Curtain and Full Can of Whoop-Ass) which are counter synergetic with current Bloodletter (the only Legendary COM for that tree btw), 1 skill which is a straight up weaker version of guardian skill (Force Feedback) and a capstone which doesn’t work with 1hp at all (Tenacious Defense, skill which needs you to have HP pool in a tree which promotes you having as little HP as possible, but that’s a matter of another topic).

I really hope Moze will not be forced into builds with Vampyr and grenades, I personally have much more fun with maximum dakka BM/SoR build with Shredifier/Lyuda/Dictator/Faisor/Magnificent, but only ways to sustain is either picking up health potions with bloodletter or some Transformer and shock damage shenanigans.

Maybe change completely useless Force Feedback to be “gain x% of HP with every critical hit”? It would add another way of sustain alternative to Vampyr grenades, synergetic with Bottomless Mags tree AND it would fit the whole “heal shield manually” approach of Bloodletter too.


It certainly needs something. Mostly the nerf reverted. My build was capable of any content but after today it can’t hack it. I intentionally don’t use vampyr, life steal grenades, or life steal guns because it would basically make me immortal. Just the natural shield regen and health boosters for ‘oh crap’ moments were enough to stay tanky but maintain a challenge. It feels like I’m being shoved towards a boring OP build that I’m just not interested in.

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I feel rather shoehorned into speccing Vampyr (Bloodletter or not) if I want to engage in heavy firefights simply because Moze’s other active healing/sustain options feel weak.

As is SoR Moze can reach a standing shield value that takes around half a minute to recharge, during which you can’t get hit. A giant gob of health/shields is fine for small skirmishes, but for long fights sustain becomes a major concern (thus this thread).

One idea I like was a slight modification to Force Feedback (start regening shields upon crit kill), since the Guardian Rank ability Shield Reboot is just a better version. Ideally Force Feedback, to reward a crit kill, would also prevent damage from interrupting shield regen for a few seconds (kill skill duration, 5-7 seconds?).

I haven’t seen any insane recharge numbers yet, and this would be far less busted than a % based regen like in previous games, given Moze’s ability for mammoth shield capacity. Unless they make a huge recharge shield/there is one I’m unaware of. It’d be nowhere near Vampyr’s facetank all the things, but not being forced into speccing deep Demo would be great.

Not sure about what to do for BM.

Yeah I really don’t understand the nerf. The immortal builds involving the bloodletter had zero to do with the recharge rate and delay of shields. They were all, already, about manually recharging the shield. Any one not doing this with a Bloodletter was very specifically avoiding being overpowered; I guess maybe a Low Life or Shield Maiden would be better for that kind of set up now instead?

Bottomless Mags could use a lot more retooling than just some recovery. It really misses the point of why you want to have a huge magazine in the first place.

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I agree the nerf was definitely an odd one. No one I know using bloodletter ever cared about shield regen or shield cooldown, why would you when you stay full shields for every mirv hex you chuck.

When I started the game I wanted BM, because I like shooting, and I like spamming mortars (still do, still the best way to melt 5-6 badass armored tinks in M3 Slaughter Shaft at the same time), but I’m really forced into Vampyr for sustain and/or SoR for gun damage. BM which is about sustained shooting is outclassed by DW sustained survival + it’s own ammo + nade regen, and outclassed by SoR gun damage stacking and it’s own survival (shield tanking) stuff.

The only reason I’m still specced into BM is because of the 5 second infinite ammo on a low cooldown IB let’s me spam heavy guns, and if I find Heavy Guns with anointed 5 second infinite ammo when exiting bear, that spec will be pointless too.

A lot of Moze’s skills seem poorly thought out. She has two skills that rely on the magazine being low or having to reload to proc (Click. Click. and Selfless Vengeance), both of which are counter intuitive to Bottomless Mags which promotes large magazine sizes and sending as many bullets flying as possible without reloading. There’s zero self-sustain in Bottomless Mags, Dakka Bear is a useless ability, her capstone in SoR doesn’t work with the tree’s best build, the regen on shields is meaningless if you get hit any point it stops (unlock Axton’s Quick Charge), IB doesn’t work as anything more than a turret… it really feels like a lot of her skills weren’t play-tested. There’s just so much conflict between the skills. With Vampyr being the only good heal and most of the Legendary COMS being focused on the Demolition Woman tree, it does feel like we’re being forced down a specific tree.

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