Moze in serious need of a rework

I like moze a lot don’t get me wrong and her talents trees are good, but in all honesty i don’t think she should be tied to a mech with all her 3 talents tree, i think we should be able to choose between having to go into a mech or summon him to fight by our side (something similar to gaige) or even having deployed turrets summoned at will spread across all 3 talent trees that we have and each should have talents revolves around these talents trees that we have, will give us more freedom to play with moze instead of just a mech, like i said the talents are good but in all 3 specs i find it hard to use my mech as a crucial CD like Fl4k fade Away or Amaras phasegrasp.

I just feel its a clunky mechanic especially if you’re planning to utilize your anointed weapons that triggers only after leaving the mech which is like you have to plan ahead to go into the mech and leave which is gonna take you 6 seconds to do then use the anointed weapons after exiting it.

Don’t get me wrong, i do love the mech and i hope it gets buffed more at some point, but the gameplay is still clunky , like i said if most anointed weapons buffs triggers after you leave the mech maybe make us the very least exit it in an instant.

Since moze is the “Gunner” i really think her having turret deployed , or an automatic mech summoned by her side is good ideas to serve a gunner fantasy class than just having to utilize being in a mech in every single one of her specialization.

I care a lot about moze and she’s my favorite BL3 character so far, i hope officials will see this post and consider this as a feedback, i’m pretty sure that the devs have actually thought about it.


It isn’t just IB that has issues, her trees are a mess. Not quite Zane mess as she still has some decent stuff but still bad. Does she want to reload or not? Anointments can recreate if not outright shame most of her skills.


Also, add to the fact that several of her skills generate anti-synergy.
Vampyr heals health, but without a Bloodletter it does nothing for shields.
And if you have Thin Red Line, Moze has the smallest health pool of any VH and the largest shields.
Also, apparently putting more than two points into Thin Red Line means you can’t rely on healthgating.
She has an entire skill tree based on not reloading but Selfless Vengance only proc’s when you reload and her gunner terror annointment nova’s on reload.

I’m really praying the Devs do something big with Moze for the November patch.


Moses main problem is survivability with her is built on a house of cards and a strong gust of wind is around the corner.

Her entire endgame viability revolves around 2 skills…Vampyr and Means of Destruction. If these 2 go the entire character collapses. Relying on shield recharge is simply inferior to health regen and leech.

They need to add more survivability options in Bottomless Mags and give Moze a reliable and nerf proof form of shield or health leech like the other vault hunters


Having Axton’s “Able” on the Bottomless Mags tree and “Preparation” and/or “Quick Charge” in her Shield of Retribution skill tree would make sense, IMO.

I don’t know about her being reliant on vampyr and MoD. I’ve been playing with transformer and goddess without spec / class mod into phalanx and i seem to be doing okay. But that might be because of weapon damage, so i’m killing faster than they can drop my shield. Also granted i’m only running with 25K shields and 1 heath and not using spec / other means to boost my shield higher.

I do agree that we need options to run IB in different modes and also have anointeds work for us outside Action skill, same with terror (melee and action skill only means to generate terror manually)

So are you saying Moze is good becuase of her skills or her gear?

i’m saying she’s not as broken as being stated and we have alternatives, BUT for me that’s because i like the tree / skills / weapons i currently have. This game is suppose to be about multiple builds working and not being forced to abandon the game or have to rebuild / gear every time there is a patch / nerf.

So i do agree with you and that particular build is broken and the synergy between us / IB and anointed is clumsy and needs to be reworked to give us more choices.

I just didn’t agree that endgame we only have 1 build that needs vampyr / MoD to work

I’ve been using Phalanx as well with a 1hp build and no Vampyr it works, just have to play smart. I have 20k shield.

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Your alternative is arguably an exploit (shooting self to charge Transformer). At that point why not just recommend Stop-Gap/Last stand glitch plus Bloodletter Sitorak or Ward stacking glitch plus Terror extra shot glitch? Oh wow, look at that - Moze is awesome!!!

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Personally, I believe if you only rely on Vampyr and MoD to play Moze and think she isn’t endgame worthy without it, you’re doing it wrong. So, you’re telling me Redistribution, Phalanx doctrine, the skill that allows moze to shoot without expending ammo every 4 shots, and a few others aren’t worth anything? Also, I avoided Thin Red Line because reduced health isn’t going to help if your shield is crap. Better to keep both in the off chance you can’t maintain the shield and just manage to get to cover so your HP can recuperate.

Moxxi guns and transfusion grenades are tools to keep any VH healthy. If your build lacks survivability, why dont use them instead? There are also good defensive shields to equip to back you up.

This is the reason why there are so many slots to gear.

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I never said I shot myself to charge my shield. I use the transformer for 40% chance to absorb ammo and shock immunity, plus sofar it’s the biggest shield I have with absorb

For those saying Moze is viable without Vampyr- yes, that is true for normal Mayhem 3 most of the time. It’s in end game content like Slaughter Shaft where she suffers. There’s just so much incoming damage that even her massive shields drop way too quickly and regenerate too slowly to be feasible without Vampyr.

Skills that Moze need looked at, besides Iron Bear overhaul, are:

Force Feedback- Easily replaced by Guardian Skill that does the same thing without crits. Also useless in endgame where you’re getting hit constantly and the regen is stopped by one bullet.

Tenacious Defense- A capstone that basically doesn’t work the with tree’s most efficient build.

Click. Click. - a skill designed to give slightly more damage the lower your magazine size is… in a tree that promotes never having to reload or worry about running out of ammo. Becomes completely useless on some of her best fast firing guns, forcing her towards lower magazine sizes. The bonus is also minuscule compared overall compared to the damage bonuses of the SoR tree. It still floors me that this skills was designed like this.

Dakka Bear- a nice novelty skill that should be a base ability. It’s a waste of a point as it is. I put it in the same category as Inspiration from TPS. Fun to try, but will never be used seriously.

Fix those skills, along with Iron Bear, and maybe give us a BM focused COM, and Moze would be in good shape.

It’s just weird that some of her skills are so anti-synergistic.


Well said. Honestly you should probably make that post it’s own topic to get it more exposire.

What all Moxxi weapons have you found @l_gabrielcruz? So far I just found the Hail from tipping Moxi.

It was in my top 5 favorite weapons in BL2 but I didn’t care for it much in this game-but to be fair I got a shock version and it was at like level 20something while I was on my first playthru. I absolutely LOVE the Hail and hope to make it work in BL3.

Sorry for the rant but your comment just reminded me of it.

Anyways, what other Moxxis have you found? Thanks!

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Force Feedback should be a Quick Charge like kill skill without the crit perk.

Also, Tenacious Defense is good for non 1HP setups and most 1HP setups stop specing SoR upon reaching Desperate Measures.

The Leech and the Crit

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I’m a little slow on keeping up with changes to the game, so maybe this is known to everyone but me.

I was playing offline to avoid ghost and to do some farming today. I found a Hawkin that was 397 x 2 damage. Thought I would give it a try online and now it’s 436 damage. I also have another gun that use to be X 2, thought I misplaced or sold it, but now…